LED Downlighters to replace LV Halogen

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I've recently moved to a new house and after picking myself off the floor after opening the first electricity bill I'm looking to replace the multitude of halogen downlights which are all over the house with LED bulbs.

The 240V GU10's seem easy enough but I've come across some vague warnings that I can't just replace the 12V halogen bulbs in the kitchen downlighters with the LED equivalent without changing the transformer as well.

Could someone explain why this is?
 
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the older type of transformer doesnt have a stable output voltage, so can easily cook an MR16 (12V) LED unit.
The newer type of inverter gives a stable output voltage, but needs a minimum load (20W in the case of most of the smaller ones)
The LED units usually need a driver, adding another cost to the conversion.

depending on how many lamps share a power supply, and depending upon what type it is, you may be ok, you may not.
 
I have just done the same in my house and the LEDs are quite good, they use 3 watts and are nearly just as good as halogen. I have 16 x 12v MR16s in the kitchen and and just replaced the builbs at 1st but was told I needed an Electronic LED converter. I had to put one before each LED light but they only cost £3 each.
 
I have just done the same in my house and the LEDs are quite good, they use 3 watts and are nearly just as good as halogen. I have 16 x 12v MR16s in the kitchen and and just replaced the builbs at 1st but was told I needed an Electronic LED converter. I had to put one before each LED light but they only cost £3 each.

Thats not too bad, would you mind sending me a link to those?
 
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Yeah I got everthing from there. Im not sure if hes the cheapest about as I didn't realy look around. Maybe someone on here knows of a cheaper place.
 
Seems pretty good value to me. Sorry to pester you but did you get the SMD ones or the 3x1W bulbs or one of the others?
 
I bought 10 of these gu10 SMDs - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/200613464059?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

And 16 of these MR16s -
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/190519222904?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

It cost quite alot but I was sick of changing the halogen lights and 16 lights at 50w is stupid :) I don't know what I was thinking when I fitted them. I did swap them ages ago with some LED light but crap ones. These ones now are great but get them in warm white as the cool white just dosn't look right.
 
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I am lucky my system is old and uses a transformer so I can use any 12AC lamps. But on the other hand there is no voltage correction and there are three reasons to use 12V lamps. Modern units although often called transformers are in fact inverters.
1) The element is thicker than 230v version so lasts longer.
2) When an inverter is used it corrects the voltage so last longer.
3) Some areas only SELV is permitted. i.e. some areas in bathrooms.
Because of the corrected voltage they tend to run brighter so are in theroy more energy efficient but only by a very small margin.

When changing to LED the first two reasons go so only reason to use low voltage with LED lamps is where SELV is required for safety.

The link given is to an inverter designed for LED lamps but one problem is it is for DC lamps. So AC lamps may be damaged using this. And DC means polarity needs to be observed and the GU5.3 holder will allow lamps to be connected either way around. Also it's not a converter 12v high wattage to 12v low wattage but a replacement for original inverter.

I looked at lamps and found non that stated DC but many with AC on the sales spec.

So if one needs to replace the inverter then why not move to GU10 type?

My son has just tried a new GU10 lamp at 6W and very impressed. His problem is it's a rented house so he has not option of changing the fitting as having 3 GU10 bulbs lighting the living room is rather a daft way to light it as the spread is just not good enough. To light a picture on the wall they are great but general lighting useless.

So if replacing fitting why use GU10? I have two florescent lamps in my kitchen and I will admit not the best looking although work very well. The 2D fitting does look better and that's what I used in my mothers kitchen. They give a far better spread of light than a spot lamp.

For your interest the inverter turns the incoming power into DC and charges a capacitor. It then turns it back to AC at a high frequency. As a result a lot smaller and more efficient transformer can be used to transform to voltage required. This voltage is sampled and the mark space ration on the electronics that turn the AC to DC are altered to correct the RMS voltage. RMS is related to heating effect so 12v RMS will heat something the same as 12v DC. However the peak voltage can be well above 12v how much depends on wave form. With no load the mark / space ratio can't control average voltage so unit will normally close down i.e. fail safe. Hence why min watts as well as max watts.

With LED's it is common to pulse them to make them brighter without burning out. And of course the LED it's self is DC at around 1.2 volt but the lamp you by has components inside which may pulse and also with turn the AC to DC so feeding it with DC instead of AC will double the current in the internal diodes which may or may not be able to take this overload.

There are 1000's of inverters and LED lamps and know one can say with certainty which with pair with which so only real way is to buy them as matched pairs lamp and inverter. So I would as I said before play safe and convert to GU10 or another lamp completely.

As a PS low voltage AC = 50 - 1000 volt. So GU10 is low voltage. Up to 50 volt is called Extra Low voltage. Where a transformer is used so there is only a magnetic link no direct connection it's called separated so most 12v lamps work on Separated Extra Low Voltage or SELV for short.
 
I bought 10 of these gu10 SMDs - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/200613464059?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

And 16 of these MR16s -
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/190519222904?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

It cost quite alot but I was sick of changing the halogen lights and 16 lights at 50w is stupid :) I don't know what I was thinking when I fitted them. I did swap them ages ago with some LED light but crap ones. These ones now are great but get them in warm white as the cool white just dosn't look right.
I appreciate that everyone has their own opinion on the quality of led lighting but surely from an economic standpoint neither you nor the OP can consider what you had before and have know make economic and lumen sense.
Approximately £140 to light a kitchen???
Surely it would be have been far better to stick a 60w equivalent in the centre of the room and enjoy a better quality of light and save a packet of money. :confused:
 
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I wish I had just used 240v GU10s all over now. :( It would of been alot cheaper.
 
I bought 10 of these gu10 SMDs - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/200613464059?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

And 16 of these MR16s -
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/190519222904?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

It cost quite alot but I was sick of changing the halogen lights and 16 lights at 50w is stupid :) I don't know what I was thinking when I fitted them. I did swap them ages ago with some LED light but crap ones. These ones now are great but get them in warm white as the cool white just dosn't look right.
I appreciate that everyone has their own opinion on the quality of led lighting but surely from an economic standpoint neither you nor the OP can consider what you had before and have know make economic and lumen sense.
Approximately £140 to light a kitchen???
Surely it would be have been far better to stick a 60w equivalent in the centre of the room and enjoy a better quality of light and save a packet of money. :confused:

I know its sad :cry: For some reason I thought loads of spot light in the kitchen roof would look good. To be fair it does but was costing alot of money in power and builbs.
 
Links in this post may contain affiliate links for which DIYnot may be compensated.
[Makes mental note to bookmark this topic for future reference. ;) ]


ub7, leeco - the problem you have has its roots in the type of lights you have, not in the type of bulbs that are in them.

They are not designed to light up rooms, which is why you need to compensate for that by having masses of the things, and that is when the cost of running that many watts becomes the problem you notice.

Recessed lighting can be OK, but only in large sizes.

The little 2" diameter ones came out of the retail display market, where they were designed to throw small pools of light onto individual items. Ever noticed how a common term for them is spotlights?

They are actually specifically designed to not be any good for providing general room illumination.

I sometimes refer to them as torches, and if you look at the business end of a Maglite you'll see a marked similarity to an MR16 lamp.

Fiddling with the lamp technology does nothing to address the problems of the format.

In places like kitchens, bathrooms, WCs, possibly hallways and landings where you just want unobtrusive efficient lighting that just gets on and does the job, something like this is ideal:





Or, for kitchens in particular, there's a lot to recommend good old tried and trusted fluorescent strip lights.

They don't have to look like this
:

TNPP158.JPG
TNPPD2.JPG



For example the top right one here:




or these:

TLG_PLNR_F_CLIT.jpg


TLG_PRSM_F_01.jpg


And these are all from one maker.


Fluourescent lights can be dimmed. If you find one you like which isn't dimmable, look to see how easy it would be to replace the ballast with a dimmable one (which you can often find on fleaBay).



But you wouldn't want any of the above in living rooms, dining rooms, bedrooms. Back to looking in lighting shops and websites - cast your net wider than the limited range of cr*p they have in the sheds. As the old saying goes, if all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. And if all you do is look in DIY sheds everything that isn't hideous looks like a downlighter.


In terms of basic technology, as well as fluorescent and LED, look into magnetic induction lamps, dielectric barrier discharge lighting (Osram have been sitting on their Planon technology for b****y years, which is a shame), and Electron stimulated luminescence.

If you want LED, again go for larger sizes, e.g. the Thorn BaseLED.


Think if you could use cold cathode neons:



here's an example of that in a domestic kitchen showing that it isn't only suitable for nightclubs and hotel foyers:


(Ignore the fact that there are also torches in there :confused: )
 

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