Wago connectors have already been in use for over 50 years.
What would another 50 years prove?
10 mm cable joimt
- Thread starter Fizza
- Start date
What would another 50 years prove?
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More solidly that I am in error, plus I might be less able to understand it in another 100 years.
anyway I had no idea that they had actually been around that long either so thanks for the info
anyway I had no idea that they had actually been around that long either so thanks for the info
It only takes 30 seconds on-line to confirm that what flameport says is literally true. The Wago company was founded in 1951, they obtained various patents for spring-loaded terminals in the 1950s and were probably producing products using that technology in large quantities by the 1970s. However, I don't think that means very much.
For a start (remembering that this is a DIY forum), reasonably widespread use of Wagos (or any spring-loaded terminals) in domestic installations has been happening for far less than 50 years.
More to the point, it is naive to assume that this issue can be viewed generically. What matters in the long-term in-service performance of actual products currently being used, not the performance of 'similar' products in the past. Series 221 Wagos are probably the most commonly used today, and I don't think they were introduced until 2014, so there's another 40 years to go before we have 50 years in-service experience of them -although, of course, long before then we will be using some new design of products, so the 'long-term-in-service clock will have been repeatedly reset to zero.
In contrast, we have a lot more than 50 years experience of traditional screwed terminals being in long-term ervice, and the design of those have changed little over the decades. A very high proportion of all the electrical installation in a non-new house that I've seen (including all those that I or family members have lived in) has had a good few screwed terminal JBs (some usually 'concealed'), and, provided they are installed correctly in the first place, seem to result in very few problems, even in very long-term service. How common actually is it to see problems resulting from concealed' screw-terminal JBs?
I seen some brass terminals, replaced with plated steel over the years, which rather worries me. They are especially a problem, if the terminations are ever subjected to moisture, because rust can quickly appear. Nowt much wrong with brass terminals, if terminations are well-made.
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Yes the Wago (Hellerman Tyton was another too) as I know it was the push on, waggle and pull off originally and then the lever types and that certainly a few years back but not 50 years though.
I did buy a special offer assortment in plastic case a few years back at Elex Show then every year got a few free samples two three or four times each yearly show to top up and I made sure that S W M B O got some too so I rarely bought any packs at the wholesalers.
I also got some other freebies years ago, there were bargains to be had most often, but recent years it`s not the same.
Denmans opened me an account and gave me loadsa goodies but I never used them so they did same again a couple of years later too and I still never use them, the holdall bags are great even before they put goodies in, oh I got two.
I did miss out on the free bacon roll one year though.
I did buy a special offer assortment in plastic case a few years back at Elex Show then every year got a few free samples two three or four times each yearly show to top up and I made sure that S W M B O got some too so I rarely bought any packs at the wholesalers.
I also got some other freebies years ago, there were bargains to be had most often, but recent years it`s not the same.
Denmans opened me an account and gave me loadsa goodies but I never used them so they did same again a couple of years later too and I still never use them, the holdall bags are great even before they put goodies in, oh I got two.
I did miss out on the free bacon roll one year though.
Quite - and, as I wrote, each time a new variant of these things appears the 50 year (or whatever) "long-term in service experience" clock gets reset to zero. I very much doubt that any new-fangled connectors being installed will remain essentially unchanged for anything even remotely as long as traditional screwed connections - so, unlike the case with the latter, I doubt that we will ever have particularly long-term in-service experience of products currently being installed'!
How happy would you be to take a medicine which had been licensed on the basis that it was 'conceptually similar' to a previous medicine that had been shown to be pretty safe during long-term use, even though there was no little such data relating to the new one?
I feel the same about lever wagos, for situations with solid strands I prefer the NON lever push in wagos.
For 6mm they do a Red 3 port, which is ideal for this situation and the cable seems a very tight connection.
For what it's worth, there I definitely do differ from you.
Both push-in and lever Wagos are 'spring loaded', so that long-term maintenance of a good electrical connection is dependent upon the spring.; In other words, one the lever of a lever Wago is closed, it's essentially the same as a push-in one, the main difference being that the lever ones allow one to 'relax the spring' during insertion of the conductor , rather than having to'fight against'the spring (and, as you imply, such a design is really essential for stranded conductors, particularly flex).
I actually see pros and cons with each but I have a slight leaning to favour the levers.
The push in in requires more force and might give some wiping affect so good on that.
If you look at the triangle of forces then depending upon the angle of the dangle etc a lever could be applying more force with less effort.
Does the longitudinal length bite in two or three places rather than just one?
If using a solid conductor it will be round ish if the wago contacts are flat rather than slightly curved where they touch they will have less contact area, there are many variables for all of the size range, conductor type and construction, normal temperature range and vibration stress strain etc etc etc, what would be best for every situation?
Then for stranded/softer conductors we get some more variations.
Soldering or welding become better prospects if done correctly.
In short, is whatever method we use good enough for that particular situation?
That question probably influences my view on lightly loaded lighting circuits being good use of wago types and power circuits sometimes perhaps less so right up to the very power hungry circuits ( I am only keeping the perception of light loading and heavy loading in this respect into the very narrow band of normal domestic circuits too).
The push in in requires more force and might give some wiping affect so good on that.
If you look at the triangle of forces then depending upon the angle of the dangle etc a lever could be applying more force with less effort.
Does the longitudinal length bite in two or three places rather than just one?
If using a solid conductor it will be round ish if the wago contacts are flat rather than slightly curved where they touch they will have less contact area, there are many variables for all of the size range, conductor type and construction, normal temperature range and vibration stress strain etc etc etc, what would be best for every situation?
Then for stranded/softer conductors we get some more variations.
Soldering or welding become better prospects if done correctly.
In short, is whatever method we use good enough for that particular situation?
That question probably influences my view on lightly loaded lighting circuits being good use of wago types and power circuits sometimes perhaps less so right up to the very power hungry circuits ( I am only keeping the perception of light loading and heavy loading in this respect into the very narrow band of normal domestic circuits too).
Having been out on a few faults where the problem has been overheated and therefore failed Wago's, I wouldn't attempt to use them on anyhing more than a few amps. Certainly not a 6mm² 32A circuit, they aint pretty when they fail at those levels.
My personal favoured method, is screwed terminals, or connectors, but a connector with a wide enough hole, to accommodate the two wires overlapped. That way, you get the pressure of two screws on each conductor, each conductor in close contact with the other one, and little or no reliance, upon the connector to conduct the current. That can be done, both wires from the same end, or one from each end.
Tighten up, waggle the cables, then retighten to make sure.
As suggested in my post #8
Can I just add? making the conductors size as near as possible to the terminal inside diameters to assist area of contact with terminals or other conductors too?
I didn`t mention the screw ends being slightly radiused to give a small anchoring dent without malforming the conductor too much.
Does a Wago have little anchoring dents/knurls inside or concave mating prts or is it just a plain flat plate? I have never looked inside to see, would be interesting to know if anyone has actually taken some apart.
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