10mm earth cable, outside run colour?

[Iggifer]

A switch drop/fan supply is different because you can only see the cores at the terminations, where it's over sleeved. A bonding cable you can see the colour throughout the length of the cable.

 

[ericmark]

From my reading you can't use green/yellow for anything but earth, however the reverse is not true, other colours can be used as earth bonding, and since the cable is a extraneous-conductive-part it is under 514.6.1 exempt from colour markings. But I would say in that case 514.13.1 would come in so labels stating "Safety Electrical Connection - Do Not Remove" would need using, and on balance I think a green and yellow cable would be better than the labels.

If it were me I would use green/yellow then paint it. I know that may seem silly but as already said it's too easy for earth cables to be removed in error if wrong colour but if some when to remove a painted cable they would realise it was an earth cable.

 

[JohnW2]

A switch drop/fan supply is different because you can only see the cores at the terminations, where it's over sleeved. A bonding cable you can see the colour throughout the length of the cable.

That's true, but riveralt was throwing at me a regulation which applies as much to switch drops etc. as it does to bonding conductors.

Particular given that the OP's proposal would be re-compliant, I can't help feel that people are getting over-concerned. Yes, some idiot might cut a black or brown bonding conductor because it didn't light up a voltage stick, but, using the same logic, the same idiot might just as easily cut the cable to a cooker, shower, immersion, light fitting (if not loop-in) or whatever because it was not 'live' (because of a switch/isolator) when he applied his voltage stick - or, as I have said, cut a black or brown telephone, aerial, disk or data cable (which didn't light up his volt stick).

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

From my reading you can't use green/yellow for anything but earth, however the reverse is not true, ...

That's correct. Well, the first bit is only true, per regs, of a G/Y single. As often discussed (often in the context of plumbers!) it is strictly not in violation of the regs to over-sleeve the ends of the G/Y core of flex to use it as a live conductor - even though it is an 'orrible practice!

... since the cable is a extraneous-conductive-part it is under 514.6.1 exempt from colour markings.

Hmmm - I'm really not sure that it is sensible to call a bonding conductor an extraneous-c-p. If you did, then you would then presumably create a vicious circle which would require you to install an infinite number of bonding conductors - since each such conductor you installed would itself then need to be bonded

But I would say in that case 514.13.1 would come in so labels stating "Safety Electrical Connection - Do Not Remove" would need using, and on balance I think a green and yellow cable would be better than the labels.

Such labels are only required at the ends of the conductor - and, in the OP's case, I suspect that they would both be indoors.

If it were me I would use green/yellow then paint it.

Hmm again! I've already mentioned that, but I'm not convinced that black paint is materially different from black insulation or sheath!

Kind Regards, John

 

[deadshort]

Why don't you run it in some black conduit ?

DS

 

[OwainDIYer]

As often discussed (often in the context of plumbers!) it is strictly not in violation of the regs to over-sleeve the ends of the G/Y core of flex to use it as a live conductor - even though it is an 'orrible practice!

Although the applications where you could have a flex or cable in fixed wiring which didn't require a cpc anyway are pretty limited, and most plumbing isn't one of them!

 

[EFLImpudence]

Does the fact that you want to colour the bonding conductor brown or black mean the wall is brick?

If so, you can bury the conductor in the mortar if it is that important to hide it.

 

[JohnW2]

As often discussed (often in the context of plumbers!) it is strictly not in violation of the regs to over-sleeve the ends of the G/Y core of flex to use it as a live conductor - even though it is an 'orrible practice!

Although the applications where you could have a flex or cable in fixed wiring which didn't require a cpc anyway are pretty limited, and most plumbing isn't one of them!

That discussion most often seems to arise in relation to cables connected to heating 'wiring centres', which invariably get a CPC from some other cable, but that doesn't necessarily get them off the hook as regards a CPC for whatever is at the other end of the flex! I've personally most often seen (albeit not very often) over-sleeved (or not over-sleeved!) G/Ys used as live conductors in cables to room thermostats and timer fans.

Kind Regards, John

 

[333rocky333]

Im sure the Dno use black cable as earth wires sometimes

 

[JohnW2]

Im sure the Dno use black cable as earth wires sometimes

I don't doubt it. As I've shown before, they use a red-insulated (albeit brown-sheathed) conductor to bring the neutral of my overhead supply into my house (and they leave the inner insulation 'exposed', so I can tell what colour it is!) ....

Untitled

• JohnW2
• 5 Apr 2012
• 3

(note also the 'interesting' red/blue/green and A/B/C phase identifications!)

Kind Regards, John

 

[securespark]

Why don't you run it in some black conduit ?

DS

That's what I do when running PEB's outside.

The thing that bothers me is the OP talks about running part of the cable in another colour which implies it will be jointed.

 

[JohnW2]

The thing that bothers me is the OP talks about running part of the cable in another colour which implies it will be jointed.

I think he only said that because he thought there would be a requirement for it to be G/Y indoors. If he decided to go with his black or brown cable (without conduit), with G/Y identification sleeving at ends, then he could presumably have an unbroken run of his black or brown cable.

As regards a join in a bonding conductor, we've discussed that before and, although it's theoretically not ideal, I don't think it would be a major issue (or non-compliant with regs). Let's face it, if I've done my sums right, there will nearly always be at least 4 screwed connections between an extraneous-c-p and a DNOs incoming 'earth' - so one or two more (or, for those who can do it properly, a crimped joint) would probably not be the end of the world.

Kind Regards, John

 

[sparkwright]

In a 3 core SWA cable it was perfectly acceptable to use the yellow as the earth if sleeved with a trace of green and yellow. With that in mind, it's now acceptable to use the black of an SWA as the earth, again with a short sleeve over it. With that in mind, the grey or even blue (if 4 core) could therefore be used.

With that in mind, I SUPPOSE a black or grey 10mm2 single insulated single core COULD be used for the bonding.

I would insist on a generous amount of large green and yellow sleeving (not tape, bit rubbish) at the ends where the cable is terminated.

Doesn't feel quite right though, so I'd like opinions on this.

Conversely, I think the forum did decide it was ok with say a 3 core flex, it WAS OK to use the green and yellow core as a live conductor IF sleeved correctly, and IF the accessory had another form of earth point at it. We also decided it was NOT OK to ever use a bare earth wire in a T&E cable as a live conductor.

 

[JohnW2]

In a 3 core SWA cable it was perfectly acceptable to use the yellow as the earth if sleeved with a trace of green and yellow. With that in mind, it's now acceptable to use the black of an SWA as the earth, again with a short sleeve over it. With that in mind, the grey or even blue (if 4 core) could therefore be used.

Indeed.

With that in mind, I SUPPOSE a black or grey 10mm2 single insulated single core COULD be used for the bonding.

Indeed. As I've said, the concerns seem a little over-cautious to me - and I think that any colour with G/Y sleeving at ends would be reg-compliant.

I would insist on a generous amount of large green and yellow sleeving (not tape, bit rubbish) at the ends where the cable is terminated.

It's not really at the ends that there are any concerns. It will be fairly obvious what it is, and that it is 'connected to something' (with a 'do not remove' label at least at the extraaneous-c-p end), so I don't think that more than a token bit of 'identifying' G/Y sleeving at the ends would really be necessary. People's concerns related to the black/brown/whatever cable being cut in the middle, "because it didn't light up a volt stick".

Doesn't feel quite right though, so I'd like opinions on this.

In a sense my 'first reaction' feeling is the same, but the more I think about it, the less I regard it as a cause for concern.

Conversely, I think the forum did decide it was ok with say a 3 core flex, it WAS OK to use the green and yellow core as a live conductor IF sleeved correctly, and IF the accessory had another form of earth point at it. We also decided it was NOT OK to ever use a bare earth wire in a T&E cable as a live conductor.

Yes, I mentioned that a couple of posts back - and I agree that we decided exactly as you say.

Kind Regards, John

 

[sparkwright]

I personally would really be happier if the ends were sleeved green and yellow. We sleeve every other wire that's the 'wrong' colour. I wouldn't like to think, for example, someone finding a black wire at a consumer unit, and for whatever reason someone connects it to neutral.

I think sleeving at both ends would give peace of mind, and it would be 'less wrong' and less confusing for the next man.