13A socket on a lighting circuit - theoretical question.

[hard-work]

I am quoted but I have never written on this thread.

 

[JohnW2]

I am quoted but I have never written on this thread.

How intriguing - I can't for the life of me understand how that happened - I've now corrected it, anyway!

Kind Regards, John

 

[ericmark]

Against the law? Did enforcers visit to check?

I am told there were quite a few prosecutions pre-war, but that is before my time, since I have been alive we have only had one meter for both lighting and power.

 

[hard-work]

Because threads on this topic usually descend into a long winded unhelpful argument, I've not really paid much attention to them, I usually just skim through them, but...

Assuming the circuit is 1.5mm² and assuming you have "reference method 100" or better, can't you just stick a B16 in the consumer unit and then have your single socket in the loft, without fear of anything bad happening at all, even when you for 'some reason' decide to take a kettle up in the loft?!?! (not that I agree with that stance/reasoning anyway)

Am I missing something obvious/prohibitive here?

The reason I fear I am missing something obvious, is, how come this doesn't seem to get suggested in those threads, if this is, indeed, perfectly fine to do?

As been mentioned current will not run through the light switches only through the ceiling roses . If using modern ceiling roses and 1.5mm cable then installing a socket up there on the lighting circuit and leaving the mcb at 6A will do no harm. It is electrically sound. How often will you draw more than 6A from this socket? And how often? 6A is a lot. Only the likes of kettles exceed that. A 1 kW fan heater would work OK. The socket probably would be used for power tools and the likes. 1.5mm is rated at approx 15A max current. Ref 100 says 16A.

In my last house I removed the upstairs ceiling roses (cables in the loft) installing 20A 4 terminal J boxes for LED downlighters. So using the diversity factor, 1.5mm is fine with a single 13A socket and a 16A mcb on it. I didn't as I had the ring up there.

One of the reasons lighting is on a different circuit is so that if there is a power fault, the lights are still on. Divide and rule is the way.

 

[EFLImpudence]

As been mentioned current will not run through the light switches only through the ceiling roses .

Not really, they are both the same if used for the loop. The ceiling rose just doesn't have a switch.

If using modern ceiling roses and 1.5mm cable then installing a socket up there on the lighting circuit and leaving the mcb at 6A will do no harm.

We all know that. There is just one poster (missing at the moment) who will not stop saying it is not.

1.5mm is rated at approx 15A max current. Ref 100 says 16A.

Method C - 1mm² T&E is 16A and 1.5mm² 20A.

In my last house I removed the upstairs ceiling roses (cables in the loft) installing 20A 4 terminal J boxes for LED downlighters. So using the diversity factor, 1.5mm is fine with a single 13A socket and a 16A mcb on it.

So would 1mm² T&E but for some reason not allowed on "power circuits" but then call it a "lighting circuit" and all is well.

One of the reasons lighting is on a different circuit is so that if there is a power fault, the lights are still on. Divide and rule is the way.

That has nothing to do with whether you can have a socket on a 6A circuit or why it could not be 16A.

 

[winston1]

The 13 amp socket system and ring finals were developed at the same time, they compliment each other. 13 amp sockets were never intended to go on lighting circuits. Don't do it.

 

[DetlefSchmitz]

Don't do it.

I don't think it's up to you to order people not to do something perfectly normal and which meets the regulations. Get a sense of proportion!

 

[winston1]

Even winston has not suggested that anyone would feed a vacuum cleaner through a light switch!
Kind Regards, John

It was often done back in the '50s. Two pin 5a plug on the vacuum cleaner plugged into the light via a bayonet adapter. But vacuum cleaners were not 2kW loads back then.

 

[winston1]

I don't think it's up to you to order people not to do something perfectly normal and which meets the regulations. Get a sense of proportion!

I would not call it perfectly normal.

 

[JohnW2]

It was often done back in the '50s. Two pin 5a plug on the vacuum cleaner plugged into the light via a bayonet adapter. But vacuum cleaners were not 2kW loads back then.

It was, but that was 60 years ago. When she abandoned the one that she previously had heated up on her gas stove and moved on to an electric iron, my grandmother used to plug the electric iron into a bayonet adapter - and that was probably at least 1kW (and that practice of hers persisted well into the 60s).

However, it is now 2018, so those nostalgic anecdotes are totally irrelevant to the present situation/discussion.

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

While we're on the subject, what is it about a 2A or 5A plugs that is limits them to 2A or 5A?

The pins aren't tiny and neither are the terminals.

 

[securespark]

I would not call it perfectly normal.

It's in the regs. It's allowable.
It's normal.

Look up the meaning of the word "normal".

"according with, constituting, or not deviating from a norm, rule, or principle"

A 1363 socket on a lighting circuit accords with the rules of the regulations. It does not deviate from the rules of the regulations.

 

[foxhole]

I'm so glad this thread did not decend into an argument.

 

[rsgaz]

I'm so glad this thread did not decend into an argument.

Well, I did strategically post it while a certain member was 'absent'. And you see what happens immediately when they return.

MOD We had hoped the action that was taken would have served as a warning, but it seems not. Winston1 is not allowed further replies on this thread and his and his "best friends" activities will be closely monitored until they can behave.

 

[JohnW2]

While we're on the subject, what is it about a 2A or 5A plugs that is limits them to 2A or 5A? The pins aren't tiny and neither are the terminals.

Jolly good question. From their appearance, I would think that either could probably happily carry at least 20A-30A, quite probably more!

Kind Regards, John