3 Way Switch to 1 one way switch - just confused

[Summermoon]

To explain-

Took a wall out that had a switch each side to control each rooms lights. Each room had another switch however the dining room switch would make the lights brighter if switched again!.

From the Dining ceiling I have a 4 core (Red Yellow Blue Earth) & a 3 core (Red Black Earth) Red Red Yellow Joined then Black Blue joined

From the Lounge ceiling I have a 4 core (Red Yellow Blue Earth) Red Yellow Joined

Now I want to have both lights controlled by one switch at each end of the room.

Im guessing the original lights wiring is wrong as the lights got brighter when switched on.

I think I've tried each combination and each time the RCD has tripped.

Im thinking that something needs to be a taken out of the equation. Which I did and they either stay on or off with no control from the switch!!!

As the cables are all within 4 inches of each other which do I connect together?

 

[starspark]

pictures please

 

[Summermoon]

Yes Pictures would help, here they are.

Old Lighting wiring

• Summermoon
• 13 Jun 2009
• 1

Dining Room

• Summermoon
• 13 Jun 2009
• 1

Lounge

• Summermoon
• 13 Jun 2009
• 1

The switches in the dining room and Lounge that are left are both wired as follows:

Red = Common
Blue = L1
Yellow = L2

 

[ericmark]

For two way switching to work without using junction blocks in switch the switches are reversed to the way used with single switching.

The digram 1. is what we were taught at school but we use the diagram 2. in the main in houses and you will see the from mains and two lights both come from one switch.

If you look at

the junction block to right you can see the two core and earth cable which will directly control lights and if the switch is put between these two the lights should work as single switch. The red yellow blue cable would then be redundant.

The ceiling wires will not need touching at all.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Old Lighting wiring

• Summermoon
• 13 Jun 2009
• 1

What tw@ cut the earths back?

Summermoon - what you show here is potentially fatal, and if it was done here it could have been done anywhere. You must get your installation inspected, and until it's been checked and found OK do not install or use any metal light switches.

 

[Summermoon]

The Tw@ was who ever wired the house in 1974!

When moved in 2 years ago the kettle mysteriously blew up I mean exploded the wall socket - turned out the 30 amp from the cooker circuit had been used to power the socket next to the cooker!

We had the place professionally checked after that but they obviously didn't find
this mess.

All the light switches are metal! 17 of them. Nooooooooooooooooooo.

 

[Spark123]

Not that it is correct, however I fail to see why a 30A cooker supply would cause it to blow up any more than a 30A socket supply.

 

[Summermoon]

If you look at

the junction block to right you can see the two core and earth cable which will directly control lights and if the switch is put between these two the lights should work as single switch. The red yellow blue cable would then be redundant.

The ceiling wires will not need touching at all.

Ok I did that (Disconnected the RedBLueYellow) and both sets of light can now be controlled by one switch in the lounge but the dining room switch does nothing.

 

[Summermoon]

Not that it is correct, however I fail to see why a 30A cooker supply would cause it to blow up any more than a 30A socket supply.

The "Person" who installed the cooker point used the cooker circuit and the power circuit - I think I remember him saying both lives were used and also lighting cable had been used instead of the thicker stuff. The electrician found the thicker cable buried in the wall with a junction box between it and the "flex"
to the socket. The flex apparently acted as the "fuse".

Hope I explained that right, otherwise I sound like Tw@

Thanks for everyone's help

 

[ColJack]

you're missing exactly one set of red and black from the left hand wires in the switch photo..

that 3C+E is not going to work unless there is a red and black at the other switch.. but you say not or havent checked..

we need photo's of the 2 switches as well as the photo's posted.

basically you need to re-wire your lights.. you're just putting makeup on a pig here.. still won't make it a proper date...

You're not explaining it very well or I'm just not following it well tonight..

was this room one room at some point? or has it always been 2 rooms?

from what I can see.. you have...

3 x T+E at one light, and 2 x T+E at the other? no 3 core at either light?

 

[ColJack]

to get the dining room light working put red with red, blue with black and leave the yellow separate..

ideally the T+E cable should be re-routed to the other switch and the 3C+E between each switch should be removed..

the lounge switch that's still on the wall should have the 3C+E removed from it's contacts otherwise you'll have live ends flapping about..

let's address this "gets brighter when switched on" bit..

does that mean that the lights could never be switched off or is this recent since you started messing about knocking walls down?

 

[Summermoon]

to get the dining room light working put red with red, blue with black and leave the yellow separate..

Ok did that but the dining room switch still does nothing. I can turn both lights on from the lounge switch but nothing from the dining room switch

ideally the T+E cable should be re-routed to the other switch and the 3C+E between each switch should be removed..

the lounge switch that's still on the wall should have the 3C+E removed from it's contacts otherwise you'll have live ends flapping about..

Don't understand the 3c+E & T+E acronyms - sorry

let's address this "gets brighter when switched on" bit..

does that mean that the lights could never be switched off or is this recent since you started messing about knocking walls down?

Before the wall was taken down you could switch the light on on the wall that was taken down then go to other end of the dining room and switch the switch and the lights would go brighter. If you then switched the switch the other way they would turn off. If you then turned them on from that switch they would be normal brightness. If you then went to the other switch you could turn them off but they would not be brighter if you turned them on!

 

[ColJack]

3C+E = 3 Core and Earth, what you refer to as "4 core" ( we don't count the earth ..)
T+E = Twin and Earth, what you refer to as "3 core"..

so both lights come on with the lounge switch?

from your description the lights were wired in series in one switch configuration...

oh this just gets more confusing... no wonder you're struggling..

connect the 2 3C+E together in the middle, red to red etc.. leave the red and black from the T+E in seperate chock blocks..

I take it you havent taken the wires out of the other switches yet?

report back your findings...

EDIT:, ok so from looking at the lounge light closer I can see you have 3 x T+E cables there too...

so my guess is that you have the neutral from the linking wire in the wrong terminal in one of them.....

you're going to need a multimeter to do some investigation work...

 

[Summermoon]

3C+E = 3 Core and Earth, what you refer to as "4 core" ( we don't count the earth ..)
T+E = Twin and Earth, what you refer to as "3 core"..

Thank you

so both lights come on with the lounge switch?

Yes

from your description the lights were wired in series in one switch configuration...

The original configuration was:

Lounge Lights controlled by two switches
Dining Lights controlled by two switches

Taking the wall out removed one switch from each room and left me with

these hanging from the ceiling.

These are the switches left:

Dining Room Switch

• Summermoon
• 14 Jun 2009
• 1

Lounge Switch

• Summermoon
• 14 Jun 2009
• 1

oh this just gets more confusing... no wonder you're struggling..

connect the 2 3C+E together in the middle, red to red etc.. leave the red and black from the T+E in separate chock blocks..

I can now control the lounge light with both the switches. The dining room light does not come at all.

I take it you havent taken the wires out of the other switches yet?

No

 

[Space cat]

Before the wall was taken down you could switch the light on on the wall that was taken down then go to other end of the dining room and switch the switch and the lights would go brighter. If you then switched the switch the other way they would turn off. If you then turned them on from that switch they would be normal brightness. If you then went to the other switch you could turn them off but they would not be brighter if you turned them on!

Let's be clear about this. Let's call the switch that has now gone switch "A" and the one at the other end switch "B". You seem to be saying this:

1) Starting with lights off, you switch ON at A but they are dim.
2) You flip switch B and they come up bright.
3) You flip switch B BACK AGAIN and they go off.

Do you see the problem? At step three, switch B is back where it came from and yet the lights are not. They were dim after step one but now they're off. This suggests straight away that switch B is faulty - and yet it's not that simple because --

4) You flip switch B yet again (as in step 2) and the lights are bright.
5) You turn switch A OFF and the lights go out.
6) You turn switch A On again and the lights are back but dim.

Spot the problem? At step six, switch A is back where it came from after step 4 - but the lights are no longer bright. This suggests that switch A is (or was because it's gone now) also faulty.

Are you quite sure about that sequence you've described and was it repeatable?