4 ceiling roses - one switch. Add Switch for one light

[wideawake]

Hello,
This is my first post..
I understand any modifications to electrics not to be taken lightly, and caveats of disconnecting power prior to any works done....

So here goes....

I have moved into a new house with a garage conversion.
Currently I have one switch that controls 4 ceiling roses, one of which is in a converted bathroom.
So currently I have to switch on all lights to have the bathroom light work.

I want to add a pull switch to the bathroom to control ceiling rose and light (independently to existing switch)

Is it a case of removing switch wires from the current rose? and wiring in my new switch? Would I still need the other switch on? (Which I don't want to do)

Is that the easiest solution? Any ideas please.. (I have no wiring diagram, and do not know where the nearest junction box is, additionally its a flat roof)

Sorry for naïve question! (Many more questions to come.....)

Thanks in advance

 

[AndyPRK]

you need to turn the power off and loosen the ceiling roses and try and understand the wiring.

( you need to find the one that has the most cables! and is it close to the bathroom? )

Take pictures.


Considering the way its been done, there is probably a reason why it hasn't been done correctly !


An alternative bodge maybe to add a 2nd light switch either by the bed, or outside the bathroom or in the bathroom for 2 way switching.
It would still control all 4 lights though.

This would require running a 3C+E cables from the existing switch to the new switch. (which maybe easier)

 

[wideawake]

OK, thanks.

Pictures to follow.

It's the same everywhere in the house - things appear to have been done on the cheap... (1939 semi)

With light switches in bizarre places - behind doors, other side of rooms.
Surface mounted sockets....

25 years worth of DIY jobs.... (lucky I will still be paying my mortgage then! ha)

 

[wideawake]

Hello again,

As promised please see the following images..

1st is the approach to the extension - 2gang switch, the one on the left controls the 4 lights (the one on the right controls a small room)

Aproach to extension

• wideawake
• 29 Jul 2014
• 1

2nd this shows the relationship/locations of the lights

Bathroom light relation to others

• wideawake
• 29 Jul 2014
• 1

3rd shows the ceiling rose batten mounting.
This is the light I want to control separately - ideally on a pull cord (without the other lights having to be switched on)

Bathroom Light

• wideawake
• 29 Jul 2014
• 1

4th shows the wiring of the ceiling rose.

Bathroom rose wiring

• wideawake
• 29 Jul 2014
• 1

Any ideas/advice welcome.

Thanks.

 

[AndyPRK]

with the power off, loosen the switch face plate and take a photo of whats behind it.

Are there black or blue wires joined together in a loose terminal block ?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

The photos of light switches and lights don't tell us anything about how they are wired up.

The photo of the ceiling rose shows that it was wired by someone who did not have a clue how lighting circuits work.

Considering the way its been done, there is probably a reason why it hasn't been done correctly !

Yup - it was done by a numbnut.

wideawake - do you know when the conversion was done? Do you have any documentation to say that it complied with the Building Regulations? Any certificate to show the electrics complied with the Wiring Regulations?

Basically you really are going to have to know how lighting circuits should be wired, find out how yours is wired, and put it right.

Doing electrical work without a full and genuine understanding of how the things you are fiddling with actually work, following instructions to put-this-wire-in-that-terminal without truly understanding why, trying different combinations hoping to hit on the right one by luck, are bad ideas, not to be recommended.

There really is only Plan A or Plan B:

PLAN A:

• Learn how lighting circuits are wired.
• Get a multimeter and learn how to use it.
• Identify which conductors are which at the switches and the light positions.
• Check for voltage present, circuit continuity, switches working etc.
• Connect everything up properly.

PLAN B:

• Get an electrician.

 

[AndyPRK]

The photos of light switches and lights don't tell us anything about how they are wired up.

It will be very useful to know if there is a neutral at the switch.

The photo of the ceiling rose shows that it was wired by someone who did not have a clue how lighting circuits work.

That was my first thought, but there are a lot of cables/wires so this maybe why the middle terminal has been used.

But yes, not exactly cleaver with light circuits

 

[ban-all-sheds]

It will be very useful to know if there is a neutral at the switch.

What I meant was that photos of the fronts of switches and of pendants don't help.

That was my first thought, but there are a lot of cables/wires so this maybe why the middle terminal has been used.

No more than you normally see in a loop-in rose.

 

[AndyPRK]

Typically 1 wire per screw terminal.

They have managed 2 wires per screw terminal, but not done 3 which would have been required to use the outer terminal

Bathroom rose wiring

• wideawake
• 29 Jul 2014
• 1

 

[maltaron]

The photo is surely one of the intermediate roses, with in and outs of neutral and switch wires. The incoming live and switch feed must be in another rose.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Typically 1 wire per screw terminal.

They have managed 2 wires per screw terminal, but not done 3 which would have been required to use the outer terminal

¿Que?

 

[AndyPRK]

The photo is surely one of the intermediate roses, with in and outs of neutral and switch wires. The incoming live and switch feed must be in another rose.

Well its not there is it.

Either at another rose, at the switch, or junction box,
or god know what with that install !

 

[ban-all-sheds]

PLAN A:

• Learn how lighting circuits are wired.
• Get a multimeter and learn how to use it.
• Identify which conductors are which at the switches and the light positions.
• Check for voltage present, circuit continuity, switches working etc.
• Connect everything up properly.

PLAN B:

• Get an electrician.

 

[AndyPRK]

Typically 1 wire per screw terminal.

They have managed 2 wires per screw terminal, but not done 3 which would have been required to use the outer terminal

¿Que?

If you didn't understand " 1 wire per screw terminal"
1 wire per hole, as your picture shows.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

What I didn't understand was the logic behind this

Typically 1 wire per screw terminal.

They have managed 2 wires per screw terminal, but not done 3 which would have been required to use the outer terminal

as a response to this exchange:

there are a lot of cables/wires so this maybe why the middle terminal has been used.

No more than you normally see in a loop-in rose.