70 ,000 NHS

[JP_]

Boll@x, just made up boll@x with no real figures and proofs behind it.

Lots of figures behind is actually. Pretty bleedin obvious too, if you open your eyes and look what is happening.

But, just the humour you, here's some science behind it - feel free to ignore, call them liars, change the topic etc etc.
I've made the figures that you refuse to believe exist slightly easier for you to read.

Covid-19: One dose of vaccine cuts risk of passing on infection by as much as 50%, research shows
BMJ 2021; 373 doi: https://doi.org/10.1136/bmj.n1112 (Published 28 April 2021)Cite this as: BMJ 2021;373:n1112

"Adults infected with covid-19 three weeks after receiving one dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech or Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine were 38-49% less likely to pass the virus"

There's lots of other "figures and proofs" in the scientific community - saying it is not there does not make it not there.

 

[Justin Passing]

if the deaths or side effects from the vaccine are worse than from Covid, then yes Inwill be happy to admit I was wrong.

But since the current data proves vaccines saves lives, the anti vaxxers have to admit they are wrong now.

Which current data? Delta yes. Omicron - ?? I'm not saying it hasn't, but what data?
This is for saving lives, ie deaths; not about passing it on etc.

 

[ajohn]

i can see justin's argument but
Omicron is new. In some ways this is just like the original infection pattern when it all started. It took a while to spread to significant levels across the country. Weeks and weeks or have people forgotten that. Levels went high in London. Nothing new about that aspect even for the original infection.

Whitty's comment when things started increasing was that we have 2 waves. One for Delta and another for Omicron. The biohazard lot or what ever they call themselves eventually stated that Omicron is the dominant strain. They are the lot that look for variants of concern. They do that via tests. In some ways it can be said that the vaccinations are effective against Delta. London at least should give some indication on Omicron. But anyway deaths are not the main problem. Hospital entry rates are the aspect that needs controlling. London responded to controls in exactly the same way as areas always do. Cases carry on rising for a while and then start falling. It will be the same across the entire country with some areas having more "problems" than others. Infection level maps show which ones. London's transport system has been loosing money, lack of use, Personally I wonder if this relates to infection level recovery rates. Some areas may have more people who have to go to work. Some areas have more concentrated shopping areas.

When have SA said they don't have people in hospital? It's also an entirely different place 1.22m km^2 against our 242k km^2. It's not even clear if all of their hospitals register figures. Area figures there are more likely to relate to the UK. It seems that their vaccination levels are lower than ours. Some wonder if natural immunity is higher.

In effect we are on another voyage of discovery. Omicron and high levels of vaccination but not with all people. There are "problem" groups of several types in that respect. It's still clear that vaccination reduces problem levels but maybe not by enough. Deaths are irrelevant in respect to this area other than what would happen if people were not treated.

TBH While I would argue about some things the state has done the info they provide is adequate to see what is actually going on. Saying nothing just means nothing currently to say. When they talk the talk they probably do have an agenda but the figures are there and don't lie and all people need to do is go look at them. There will always be some farts around that will question them. One for instance reckoned false positives would have most of the country isolating in weeks. That didn't happen. We had an alternate SAGE group form itself. Plenty saying what is being done is costing them money. We have politicians voting against things as they know that what ever it is will pass anyway. In real terms they haven't a clue what they would do and no idea what would happen if things went their way. Personally I suspect it's just a way of showing that the party has interests that suite some sectors and if adopted the results would be disastrous so they just pretend to support alternatives.

On another post. The questioning of testing results is down to shortages and what effect that may have on the public. On the other hand they always take a lot of notice of ONS random testing but it has a time delay. They are random so forget asymptotics. All similar testing is the same.

 

[Notch7]

Which current data? Delta yes. Omicron - ?? I'm not saying it hasn't, but what data?
This is for saving lives, ie deaths; not about passing it on etc.

look at the data over the last year

it clearly shows vaccines have broken the connection between infection and hospitalisation

It would be nice is Omicron is the start of milder variants, but we dont know that

and because of high vaccination rates we cant be sure how much vaccines and boosters have helped to reduce Omicron deaths and long covid

 

[BlueLoo]

Lots of figures behind is actually. Pretty bleedin obvious too, if you open your eyes and look what is happening.

But, just the humour you, here's some science behind it - feel free to ignore, call them liars, change the topic etc etc.
I've made the figures that you refuse to believe exist slightly easier for you to read.

Covid-19: One dose of vaccine cuts risk of passing on infection by as much as 50%, research shows
BMJ 2021; 373 doi: https://doi.org/10.1136/bmj.n1112 (Published 28 April 2021)Cite this as: BMJ 2021;373:n1112

"Adults infected with covid-19 three weeks after receiving one dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech or Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine were 38-49% less likely to pass the virus"

There's lots of other "figures and proofs" in the scientific community - saying it is not there does not make it not there.

and a few months later....

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00768-4/fulltext

A recent investigation by the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention of an outbreak of COVID-19 in a prison in Texas showed the equal presence of infectious virus in the nasopharynx of vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals.
6
Similarly, researchers in California observed no major differences between vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals in terms of SARS-CoV-2 viral loads in the nasopharynx, even in those with proven asymptomatic infection.
7
Thus, the current evidence suggests that current mandatory vaccination policies might need to be reconsidered, and that vaccination status should not replace mitigation practices such as mask wearing, physical distancing, and contact-tracing investigations, even within highly vaccinated populations.

 

[Notch7]

You might not have looked at the data but you can't assert that others are ignorant just because you are.
The numbers coming out of SA were clear enough

its not ignorance, its fact

the UK did not know the data about Omicron -and data from South Africa did not emerge early enough to make decisions

the WHO gave it a variant of concern status -are you saying they were ignorant, or do you know better

 

[Justin Passing]

look at the data over the last year

it clearly shows vaccines have broken the connection between infection and hospitalisation

It would be nice is Omicron is the start of milder variants, but we dont know that

and because of high vaccination rates we cant be sure how much vaccines and boosters have helped to reduce Omicron deaths and long covid

Completely not the point.
I'm talking about HMG figures and deceptions.

 

[Notch7]

and a few months later....

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00768-4/fulltext

so what

data is emerging all the time

proves nothing other than youve found one article to back your argument

 

[Justin Passing]

its not ignorance, its fact

the UK did not know the data about Omicron -and data from South Africa did not emerge early enough to make decisions

the WHO gave it a variant of concern status -are you saying they were ignorant, or do you know better

There was pious derision of respected SA doctors yes, but they CAN count..
Variant of concern doesn't mean it was killing anyone.
Several weeks into the disease, the WHO declared it wasn't killing anyone. Do you know better than the WHO?

 

[BlueLoo]

so what

data is emerging all the time

proves nothing other than youve found one article to back your argument

I thought it was you lot accusing the other lot of being selective with the data?

Which way do you want it?

 

[Notch7]

Completely not the point.
I'm talking about HMG figures and deceptions.

completely IS the point

the UK didnt have the data for Omicron -thats what happens in a live pandemic, you have to make decisions based on a lack of data

 

[Justin Passing]

It is the point. I made it.
HMG is lying to us about omicron, always has.

You want to babble on about something irrelevant and claim it's relevant to that point. Troll.

 

[Justin Passing]

so what

data is emerging all the time

proves nothing other than youve found one article to back your argument

Proves nothing except it's evidence. Ah, right.
Give your head a wobble, mate...

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

You might not have looked at the data but you can't assert that others are ignorant just because you are.
The numbers coming out of SA were clear enough.

HMG has a history in this of not being truthful. They're apparently giving us duff info about numbers dying. Right now, what's the point of that?
All it produces is, for example, people on here claiming there are hundreds dying of covid every day, looking daft. No evidence of that, at all. It's fuel for antivaxx nutters.
If it was all about vaccines, why not tell us the numbers dying of covid who were not vaccinated? Maybe because it's a tiny number which would motivate nobody?
I hope we get some sort of truth.

Of course it could just be you who is entirely misinformed, putting you own swing on what you read.

Fact - 80% of those suffering the effects of covid are those who declined the jab.
Fact - 90% of the new mothers suffering the effects of covid are the ones who declined the jab because they were prgnant.

Fact - 80 to 90% of the population did accept the jab. Look at this last figure, then look at the numbers in the above two lines - notice anything?

 

[denso13]

There was pious derision of respected SA doctors

I don't remember it like that at all. Evidence from SA, at the time, suggested less severe illness. Some commentators suggested Omicron could lead us out of the pandemic. I was certainly glad to hear something different.