A Question of Symmetry.

[Ray1000]

I'm aiming to renew all our UPVC windows but this time replace the wooden front and back doors.

I would have liked the front door to be symmetrical and considered moving the new door nearer the front but the recess is only 34.5" meaning the existing door and frame would need to come out with an almost impossible task of making the interior look something like.

I may have to settle for the new UPVC being a direct replacement for the wooden door, side panel and frame.

Any ideas to give it the appearance - from the outside - of being symmetrical would be welcome.

Thanks
Ray

 

[^woody^]

Paint the bricks white

 

[Ray1000]

Something of that nature will be the solution but the brickwork will need covering first… maybe rendered or a UPVC panel to match the door ?

 

[Mottie]

Doesn't that missing roof tile bother you?

 

[Ray1000]

It’s only broken in half Mottie, but yes it does. I always imagine they will break 6 more getting to it

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

I was laughing at your concern until I saw the photo. I agree, it reminds me of a Land Rover Discovery...

Have you thought about a front porch? Might be a bit of a squeeze if entirely within the recess, but could look good if protruding a bit with a continuation of the pitch over it, if designed nicely and headroom isn't an issue. If not then a gable end at the front with pitched sides meeting the main roof. Then you can make the front door on the new porch central and don't need to care about the inner door.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Any ideas to give it the appearance - from the outside - of being symmetrical would be welcome.

Would adding a new door at the front boundary wall do it? Maybe then replace the inner door, with a wider, two part opening door.

 

[Ray1000]

Thank you 'Ivor' and Harry,

I know what you mean about the Landrover Discovery

30 years ago when we moved in I might have considered a front porch with a gable end and pitched sides meeting the main roof but now I'm thinking something more simple.

I can't make my mind up about the new door at the front boundary wall. Not only if they look generally less good than a recessed door, but the fact the porch is only 34 inch deep and the existing front door would need come out spoiling the symmetry on the inside. The ceiling height on the inside is also higher than the porch "ceiling"

One solution may be to have new door in the same place as the old but with two solid side panels slightly in front of the door, one of which would cover the brickwork? I think they refer to it as "breakfront" when it's applied to furniture?

 

[Ray1000]

I’m also wondering if the new door frame with solid side panels was fitted a brick width further forward than the existing door. From the outside it would be symmetrical and the inside would be similar to now with the existing architrave ?

How do I get the Window & Door forum people to see this post?

 

[Notch7]

internally the arrangement looks lovely

externally I think you could make it work visually by changing the appearance

If it was me I would look at painting the brickwork white and then having a nice pot with a tall narrow plant like a grass in it

I would also repaint the outside of the door a nice rich colour, then would would have a bold front door with white either side making it symmetrical

I cant see any benefit to moving the door frame to the outside edge, its a lot of money that wont achieve much given you cant use the room internally for anything

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

I'm not generally a fan of wood, as it tends to turn to compost after a few years. But in your sheltered position it would be fine.

I like your idea - keep the recess but move it forward one brick width to cover the wall on the right. You need something classier than pine though.

Also I reckon that you could keep the window on the right, if it was surrounded by dark wood to match the panel on the left then it would be balanced enough to look fine.

Alternatively, what about a door with a window either side where the left window is black glass?

What I don't know is how stable a door would be where the entire hinge side of the frame isn't attached to masonry. It's probably fine, just something to check.

 

[Ray1000]

Thank you for your kind remark about the inside Notch, I put the paper on, and painted the woodwork in 1994 !

Now you have mentioned black glass Ivor, it might be possible to have the glass dark enough to obscure the brickwork and still gain an incoming light benefit on the inside.

Just before the new unit was installed you would cover the bricks behind the glass with a black sheet of something.

I know what you mean about the stability but it would be no different to all the UPVC doors and side panels fitted on the boundary wall.

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

I mean fit a door in the middle with an identical window on each side, completely symmetrical. Both sides could be fully glazed or have a timber or plastic panel in the lower half.

The only difference between left and right would be that the window to the left of the door would have black glass. Easy to achieve, just put drug dealer black car window tint film on its back surface. Keep the one on the right clear. Look at your photo, it appears to be near enough black normally anyway. When you switch the lights on it will lose its symmetry but I'd say that doesn't matter at all.

The big problem with my otherwise genius plan is that, with UPVC frames at least, the sealed units are fitted from the back AFTER you've installed the frame, the screws are then hidden inside the frame by the sealed unit. Which you couldn't do if it was backed onto the brick. Perhaps other styles of frame differ, but possibly not, as they're usually glazed from the inside for security and weatherproofing reasons.

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

I'd suggest putting a pot with something green and leafy on the left, job done.

 

[Ray1000]

I’ll have to keep the glazing bars in mind now you mention it, although it’s likely both side panels could be installed the other way round and go un-noticed