A sad state of affairs...
- Thread starter ellal
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If it covers the scenario that I asked ellal a question on (where has he disappeared to), I’m for it. So should everyone with nothing to hide. Do you have anything to hide?
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Interesting you say that. Please post on here your name, address, that of your kids and family.
The problem with this "nothing to fear, nothing to hide " is that you do not value your own privacy. You might as well add you don't value freedom of speech. Your argument is based on a false premise that it is privacy v security when its actually its liberty vs control as pointed out by Bruce Schneir.
A decade down the line we have a Government that makes it illegal to protest against Government Contracts or Immigration. The fact you have given up your right to privacy means you have also given up your right to freedom of speech.
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Any government department interested in me already has that information. They’ll have yours too.
The sensible answer to that question is to get someone else (preferably foreign) to do the torturing.If you had the opportunity to torture the mastermind of the 911 or 7/7 London bombings including the option of inflicting rape or murder on people they loved to get information that would have prevented those atrocities and saved many innocent lives including the war that sprung from one of them, would you have taken it? Serious question so not expecting an answer.
Once the required information is obtained, the torturers then contact you.
In order to keep your hands and conscience clean you ask them a simple question, "did you torture that chap we sent you" the torturers then reply "no Sahib, after his unfortunate accident while in our custody he just couldn't stop talking all the way to intensive care.
I can't find a link to it, I looked last night, it was the reason for my Orwell response. But there was a news article, ten years ago at least where as part of the 'green agenda', schoolchildren were encouraged to 'spy' on their parents and report back to the school recording incidents of 'leaving the light on in unattended rooms' and suchlike, the school would follow up with a letter to the parents encouraging energy saving. I think it was stamped on fairly quickly and it may have only been one school.
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If you had the opportunity to torture the mastermind of the 911 or 7/7 London bombings including the option of inflicting rape or murder on people they loved to get information that would have prevented those atrocities and saved many innocent lives including the war that sprung from one of them, would you have taken it? Serious question so not expecting an answer.
Yep, no answer, looks like I was right!
Last edited:
"Does Torture Work? The C.I.A.’s Claims and What the Committee Found
By MATT APUZZO, HAEYOUN PARK and LARRY BUCHANAN DEC. 9, 2014
A report by the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence describes a years-long C.I.A. effort to justify its harsh interrogation tactics."
"The Case
No counterterrorism mission was more successful or higher profile than the secret raid that killed Osama bin Laden in 2011. Almost immediately, C.I.A. officials began telling Congress that its interrogation program led them to a secretive courier, Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti, who in turn led the C.I.A. to the doorstep of the world’s most-wanted terrorist.
Committee’s Conclusion
But in page after page of previously classified evidence, the committee calls those statements inaccurate. The report shows that, as early as 2002, the C.I.A. received a wealth of evidence about the courier, including his alias and his association with Bin Laden, as well as a physical description and family connections that would later prove crucial in finding him. By the end of the year, the C.I.A. was wiretapping his phone number and email address and had recordings of his voice.
The linchpin in the hunt for the courier was a detainee named Hassan Ghul. But Mr. Ghul was cooperative from the outset. One officer said he “sang like a tweetie bird.” Mr. Ghul spoke expansively about the courier, describing him as Bin Laden’s closest assistant. Despite the cooperation, the C.I.A. decided to torture Mr. Ghul, subjecting him to sleep deprivation and stress positions. He hallucinated. His heart fell out of rhythm. But he provided “no actionable threat information.”
Nevertheless, after the Bin Laden raid, the C.I.A. provided Congress with a document listing Mr. Ghul as a detainee who had been subjected to enhanced interrogation and provided valuable intelligence on Bin Laden’s courier. The document did not make clear that the valuable intelligence came before the harsh tactics."
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive...cias-claims-and-what-the-committee-found.html
By MATT APUZZO, HAEYOUN PARK and LARRY BUCHANAN DEC. 9, 2014
A report by the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence describes a years-long C.I.A. effort to justify its harsh interrogation tactics."
"The Case
No counterterrorism mission was more successful or higher profile than the secret raid that killed Osama bin Laden in 2011. Almost immediately, C.I.A. officials began telling Congress that its interrogation program led them to a secretive courier, Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti, who in turn led the C.I.A. to the doorstep of the world’s most-wanted terrorist.
Committee’s Conclusion
But in page after page of previously classified evidence, the committee calls those statements inaccurate. The report shows that, as early as 2002, the C.I.A. received a wealth of evidence about the courier, including his alias and his association with Bin Laden, as well as a physical description and family connections that would later prove crucial in finding him. By the end of the year, the C.I.A. was wiretapping his phone number and email address and had recordings of his voice.
The linchpin in the hunt for the courier was a detainee named Hassan Ghul. But Mr. Ghul was cooperative from the outset. One officer said he “sang like a tweetie bird.” Mr. Ghul spoke expansively about the courier, describing him as Bin Laden’s closest assistant. Despite the cooperation, the C.I.A. decided to torture Mr. Ghul, subjecting him to sleep deprivation and stress positions. He hallucinated. His heart fell out of rhythm. But he provided “no actionable threat information.”
Nevertheless, after the Bin Laden raid, the C.I.A. provided Congress with a document listing Mr. Ghul as a detainee who had been subjected to enhanced interrogation and provided valuable intelligence on Bin Laden’s courier. The document did not make clear that the valuable intelligence came before the harsh tactics."
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive...cias-claims-and-what-the-committee-found.html
He has no views. Only criticisms after the event. Just like Lal. All they want is to keep pushing that question further up the page. He helps Lal, Lal helps him. Cowards of a feather and all that.
What does "enhanced interrogation" mean
What does "enhanced interrogation" mean
torture.
A good talking to.
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