Adding radiator 'live' none pressurised system.

[Madrab]

I quickly cut through the pipe with a slice, bung a thumb over the end then slide this thing into place.

What about the other end? 2 open ends, 2 hands??

Just another note too - standard water/ball type ISO's are not really rated for use on CH systems that can have higher temps than 60deg, nor do the EDPM/nitrile seals like the additives in some inhibitors, if the valves don't have a gland seal then over time some can degrade and start to leak.

Hence why the more reliable pump valves etc are gate/screw down type, the ball valve type should always be avoided, as they tend to leak just by looking at them

 

[camerart]

Do you mean yes it is or no it is not?

If it is, a little bit of extra non-green gas into the atmosphere from a freeze kit won’t make much of a difference to your carbon footprint, would it?

Do you mean yes it is or no it is not?

If it is, a little bit of extra non-green gas into the atmosphere from a freeze kit won’t make much of a difference to your carbon footprint, would it?

Hi M,
Your statement was 'I take it it’s not one of those nasty fossil fuel burning heating systems then?'

I replied No is is not not one of those nasty fossil fuel burning heating systems, so No, it is one.
C

 

[Burnerman]

OK Rob, I take your point.
These are the actual valves I did use:

https://www.screwfix.com/p/pegler-pb300t-compression-full-bore-15mm-tee-ball-valve-with-red-handle/29086

They've been good for 20 years and still function.......originally with my gravity system (0.2 bar) and now at 3 bar as I've gone the combi route.
John

 

[camerart]

Just a thought. If a 22mm isolating valve was fitted to the system feed pipe from the feed and expansion tank, could that be closed off effectively making the system a temporary sealed system (and therefore creating a vacuum) for future jobs of this nature, especially in this case where draining down and refilling is a major nightmare?

Hi M,
I'm not sure, but I think that if the stiff old valve did work, he water would pull a vacuum and perhaps air would get in, so, I'm going to have a go with the stop valves (Screwfix) as suggested.
C

 

[Burnerman]

Just a thought. If a 22mm isolating valve was fitted to the system feed pipe from the feed and expansion tank, could that be closed off effectively making the system a temporary sealed system (and therefore creating a vacuum) for future jobs of this nature, especially in this case where draining down and refilling is a major nightmare?

I'm sure that has been done, Mottie........so long as no-one ever leaves it shut
John

 

[camerart]

What about the other end? 2 open ends, 2 hands??

Hi M,
The other end has gone through the radiator, so if I turn off the valves it should hold the water.

Just another note too - standard water/ball type ISO's are not really rated for use on CH systems that can have higher temps than 60deg, nor do the EDPM/nitrile seals like the additives in some inhibitors, if the valves don't have a gland seal then over time some can degrade and start to leak.

Good point, are there any 'hot' valves?

Hence why the more reliable pump valves etc are gate/screw down type, the ball valve type should always be avoided, as they tend to leak just by looking at them

Ah gate valves!! Once they get scratched, or the 'sump' filled with crud, they fail. I've had many a happy hour cleaning/polishing them which almost never works.
C

 

[camerart]

OK Rob, I take your point.
These are the actual valves I did use:

https://www.screwfix.com/p/pegler-pb300t-compression-full-bore-15mm-tee-ball-valve-with-red-handle/29086

They've been good for 20 years and still function.......originally with my gravity system (0.2 bar) and now at 3 bar as I've gone the combi route.
John

Hi B,
If they've been ok for 20 years, and my system is 30 years, and I'm XX years, I think they'll be ok, then.
Although I don't like to leave a hidden job, for others to search for in years to come.

What do you think freeze, or valves?
C

 

[camerart]

Hi,
I looked round for High temperature isolating valves, and found some, here's a sentence from the gumph.

• Red Butterfly Full Bore Isolation Valves are typically used for hot water systems. The red colour is a universal indicator that the valve controls the flow of hot water within a system, ensuring that plumbers and homeowners can make quick and accurate adjustments without confusion.

 

[Madrab]

These are the actual valves I did use:

https://www.screwfix.com/p/pegler-pb300t-compression-full-bore-15mm-tee-ball-valve-with-red-handle/29086

Ah - yep, now they're a little different - Much higher quality and I believe Pegler use Teflon in their linings/seals which make them a lot more durable, especially in the harsher conditions of a CH system. They've also got a better rating when it comes to temps and pressures. Certainly wouldn't have an issue fitting them.

 

[camerart]

Ah - yep, now they're a little different - Much higher quality and I believe Pegler use Teflon in their linings/seals which make them a lot more durable, especially in the harsher conditions of a CH system. They've also got a better rating when it comes to temps and pressures. Certainly wouldn't have an issue fitting them.

Hi R,
Good, I'll let you know what happens.
Thanks all for your thoughts.
C

 

[ChrisJP]

Hi C,
If this freezing method involves a coil around the pipe and a none 'green' gas being purged into the atmosphere, then I not keen.

I'd like to know if my idea sounds possible, and if anyone else has used it.
C

The kit contains a foam plastic jacket which you tie around the pipe, and an aerosol of liquid which you spray into the foam and which evaporates to freeze the water in the pipe to form a plug. I've used this a few times and it works well.
You are of course untitled to your views on the "non greenness" of this but really, the amount of gas released is totally trivial and is not anyway a greenhouse gas, so has no effect on "climate change"

 

[camerart]

Hi,
Don't do it this way:
Turn off the heating.
Wait for the pipes to cool.
Cut the pipe (proper cutter)
Thumb over the end.
As my old pipes are steel, the olive didn't fit, so messing about allowed hot water to come out which was too hot to hold. I ran to get some thick rubber gloves, which allowed air into the system.
Anyway a fiasco!

How to do it:
Have wet emery cloth and a taper tube handy. I used a blocked silicon nozzle from a gun.
Put the olive, then the nut onto the taper tube.
Cut the pipe.
Stick the taper up the pipe.
Slide the nut onto the pipe, then the olive. If it doesn't fit, clean the tube till it does, then slide it on.
Close the isolating valve.
Pull out the tube, and push the fitting on, the water will immediately almost stop.
Tighten the nut and job done.

I didn't want to have to go up the attic with the vacuum pump (to old for all this) Getting the air out took days of bleeding the little bubbles that would work round each day.
Anyway, it's all working again, and I did add a bottle of Sentinel 100, to the radiator.

I'm pretty sure that if I called a plumber, they wouldn't do it, as it needs a new system (This one 30 years old).

Hope this helps. Of course you could have a freezing kit if you choose, but this way is easy!
C.