Aid to India

[SALL2009]

Several thousand people die a year due to cold related deaths in the UK.

Maybe if we give more money to India, then we can use that warm fuzzy feeling to heat their homes?

Pushing it bit, aint you.

Come out from under your rock.

I said cold related deaths, not deaths directly attributed to cold, and it is several thousand a year, who knows how many of those thousands would not die if they had proper heating.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/oct/22/older-people-cold-energy-bills

http://www.accuweather.com/en/weather-news/uk-coldrelated-deaths-nine-eve/42028

http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/winterhealth/Pages/KeepWarmKeepWell.aspx

Every winter in the UK, 25,000-30,000 deaths are linked to the cold weather. Currently, approximately four million households in the UK are in fuel poverty. This is when a household spends more than 10% of its income to keep warm.

The Government already give Cold Weather Payments. I'm not against giving more to the truly needy, so yeah pensioners who need help should be helped more. But numbers could be messaged to prove whatever we like. Let’s leave pensioners aside.

Let’s take a family of 4, 2 Adults and 2 children. Would they end up on the street if they loose their jobs? The state will provide for them.

My point is, there is only so much the state can do for its people. We have to stand on our own two feet beyond this point. We have free education for under 19’s and provision for loans for anyone wanting to educate themselves further. Students also get EMA to support them through their education. There are also many grants and bursaries for university students.
So there are enough opportunities for us to make a better life for ourselves and the state is providing the infrastructure.

So, and what is your point?

I give a direct body of evidence showing people are lacking funding for heat, your response "those numbers could be massaged and lets just ignore them for my argument".

Oh wowzers.

You then list lot's of other things we provide, ignoring that we have a 10% deficit to fund them, and that's not even touching on the subject of how toxic welfare can be.

My original comment was about charity / state benefits as a whole and not state benefits for pensioners only. So why can’t I list other thing the state is providing for its people.

We all have to die one day. With age we will obviously deteriorate. Cold weather could contribute to death but it doesn’t mean it was the weather that caused the death. If you want to prove something, find out the number of deaths in summer months and compare that to deaths in winter.

 

[joe-90]

Several thousand people die a year due to cold related deaths in the UK.

Maybe if we give more money to India, then we can use that warm fuzzy feeling to heat their homes?

Pushing it bit, aint you.

Come out from under your rock.

I said cold related deaths, not deaths directly attributed to cold, and it is several thousand a year, who knows how many of those thousands would not die if they had proper heating.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/oct/22/older-people-cold-energy-bills

http://www.accuweather.com/en/weather-news/uk-coldrelated-deaths-nine-eve/42028

http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/winterhealth/Pages/KeepWarmKeepWell.aspx

Every winter in the UK, 25,000-30,000 deaths are linked to the cold weather. Currently, approximately four million households in the UK are in fuel poverty. This is when a household spends more than 10% of its income to keep warm.

The Government already give Cold Weather Payments. I'm not against giving more to the truly needy, so yeah pensioners who need help should be helped more. But numbers could be messaged to prove whatever we like. Let’s leave pensioners aside.

Let’s take a family of 4, 2 Adults and 2 children. Would they end up on the street if they loose their jobs? The state will provide for them.

My point is, there is only so much the state can do for its people. We have to stand on our own two feet beyond this point. We have free education for under 19’s and provision for loans for anyone wanting to educate themselves further. Students also get EMA to support them through their education. There are also many grants and bursaries for university students.
So there are enough opportunities for us to make a better life for ourselves and the state is providing the infrastructure.

So, and what is your point?

I give a direct body of evidence showing people are lacking funding for heat, your response "those numbers could be massaged and lets just ignore them for my argument".

Oh wowzers.

You then list lot's of other things we provide, ignoring that we have a 10% deficit to fund them, and that's not even touching on the subject of how toxic welfare can be.

My original comment was about charity / state benefits as a whole and not state benefits for pensioners only. So why can’t I list other thing the state is providing for its people.

We all have to die one day. With age we will obviously deteriorate. Cold weather could contribute to death but it doesn’t mean it was the weather that caused the death. If you want to prove something, find out the number of deaths in summer months and compare that to deaths in winter.

Stop quoting - you'll upset the mods.

 

[AronSearle]

My original comment was about charity

Yes?

state benefits as a whole and not state benefits for pensioners only.

Again, your point?

I point to you that we are failing to deliver on some of our own benefits, you just want to ignore those, or chuck more money at them. We already run a 10% deficit, you list loads of other benefits (EMA has been cut FYI), you don't really seem to be making much of a point.

If you really think "the government" should give money in aid, when it is having to run a deficit to do so, fine, just don't be surprised if hardly anyone agrees with you.

I would also argue it is morally wrong for a government, who obtains it's taxes through threat of jail, to then give that money away to countries of the governments choosing (I certainly don't remember being given ANY choice as to where this money goes).

the state is providing the infrastructure.

Would this be the same state that is projecting a 10 year schedule for repairing the potholes in roads because it has a budget black hole?

Or the one that has cancer survival rates worse than most of Europe?

I could go on.....

If you want to prove something, find out the number of deaths in summer months and compare that to deaths in winter.

That's part of how they get the numbers, as well as medical records and cause of death.

Also It's not my job to educate you, I already gave you links that will lead to the information you want.