Alarms ? wired or wireless

[rockandroll]

The answer was in the document you linked to earlier.

You mean this?

Grade 1 is for a property unlikely to attract an intruder and that any attempted intrusion is likely to be a spur-of-the-moment occurrance with no prior planning.

Properties falling into this Grade would be low grade domestic properties without an insurance requirement.

That's not the whole definition in the PD6662 standard, surely?

PD6662 doesn`t define the grading standard - no document does. As I said it`s not something your going to "get" unless you are trade.

 

[JohnD]

Given up on the "illegal" allegation, then?

 

[Paul_C]

The regs set certain requirements, Grade 1 is effectively anything that doesn't meet the minimum requirements

So you're saying that PD6662 says that anything which doesn't meet the requirements for grade 2 is automatically grade 1? So even a simple mechanical contact on a door linked directly to a siren with plain 2-core bell-wire and no control panel as such would meet the requirements for grade 1, because there are no specific requirements?

Somehow it doesn't really surprise me if a European standard could be so daft as to say that.

To suggest a Grade 1 product/system will provide the same level of performance as a Grade 3 is incorrect.

Whatever grade 1 may be, we're not assuming such a suggestion. Obviously if somebody installs an alarm claiming that it meets the requirements of PD6662 grade 3 and it doesn't, then he has misrepresented it and trading standards etc. would come into play.

But the claim earlier in this thread was that it is illegal to install a grade 1 system for remuneration. So far nobody has come up with any references to back up that claim.

Compare it to say a mechanical lock.
Does a cheap nasty Yale lock or Euro cylinder provide the same level of security has a good, 5 lever mortice?

Of course it doesn't. But it isn't illegal to install a Yale nightlatch, is it?

 

[Paul_C]

PD6662 doesn`t define the grading standard - no document does.

So you're claiming it's illegal to fit a grade 1 alarm system for pay, but there's no actual definition of what constitutes a grade 1 system?

 

[rockandroll]

Given up on the "illegal" allegation, then?

no not at all, there again I`m not here to do your training either.

If you dont understand the minimum legal requirments to trade thats your problem.

 

[rockandroll]

PD6662 doesn`t define the grading standard - no document does.

So you're claiming it's illegal to fit a grade 1 alarm system for pay, but there's no actual definition of what constitutes a grade 1 system?

see above

 

[piffle]

The regs cannot be defined in a simple sentence.

The SSAIB list of suggested versions we hold, are, and these are not one page documents;

Intruder - 27
Acc Con - 3
Alarm Transmission - 8
CCTV - 4
EL- 7
Fire Alarm - 15
Management - 7
plus around 8 others.

Now, at around £120 per copy, that is some serious reading. Unfortunately, some think they don't need to even look at them yet still say they offer a comparable service.

 

[JohnD]

grade one ... and of your charging for the install your trading illegally.

but trading without PL is illegal

I have a problem with you making statements alleging that things are illegal, when you have no evidence to support your claim, and you appear to be talking nonsense.

I still say:

If I choose to buy a cheap product, why you you imagine that it is ILLEGAL for someone to charge me to fit it?

Is there something about being in the Alarms trade that makes people prone to making wild and unfounded allegations?

 

[rockandroll]

grade one ... and of your charging for the install your trading illegally.

but trading without PL is illegal

I have a problem with you making statements alleging that things are illegal, when you have no evidence to support your claim, and you appear to be talking nonsense.

your arguing for arguings sake, one assumes your another grade one installer and your looking over your shoulder, no I`m not going to google page numbers for you - grow up.

 

[Paul_C]

If you dont understand the minimum legal requirments to trade thats your problem.

So far your claims to the alleged illegality are:

1. There is a requirement for a risk assessment to install for remuneration and that any such assessment would "by definition" specify a minimum of grade 2.

2. That it would somehow fall foul of trading standards laws.

3. That it would not meet the requirements of public liability insurance and that such insurance is a legal requirement.

Is that it?

 

[rockandroll]

If you dont understand the minimum legal requirments to trade thats your problem.

So far your claims to the alleged illegality are:

1. There is a requirement for a risk assessment to install for remuneration and that any such assessment would "by definition" specify a minimum of grade 2.

2. That it would somehow fall foul of trading standards laws.

3. That it would not meet the requirements of public liability insurance and that such insurance is a legal requirement.

Is that it?

are you saying PL insurance isn`t a legal requirment?














Ask your boss if your not sure.

 

[JohnD]

one assumes your another grade one installer and your looking over your shoulder

You are wrong. I have explained my position.

 

[Paul_C]

The regs cannot be defined in a simple sentence.

The SSAIB list of suggested versions we hold, are, and these are not one page documents {.....}

I'm not disputing that there are numerous standards for the industry or suggesting that those standards can be summarized succinctly. But SSAIB "regulations" are not law, any more than the "regulations" in BS7671 are law.

The point that JohnD and I are contesting is the claim that it is illegal to install something which does not meet those requirements.

 

[rockandroll]

one assumes your another grade one installer and your looking over your shoulder

You are wrong. I have explained my position.

you`ve said your installing a system for a friend - do you know you dont need to be charging money to be caught by trading standards legislation.

 

[rockandroll]

The regs cannot be defined in a simple sentence.

The SSAIB list of suggested versions we hold, are, and these are not one page documents {.....}

I'm not disputing that there are numerous standards for the industry or suggesting that those standards can be summarized succinctly. But SSAIB "regulations" are not law, any more than the "regulations" in BS7671 are law.

The point that JohnD and I are contesting is the claim that it is illegal to install something which does not meet those requirements.

if you answer my last question you`ll see where the "illegallity" comes from