Alfie Evans

[Brigadier]

Nope - I'm just not one of the arrogant idiots on here who appear to believe that by default the UK is the font of all knowledge

Nor indeed, the ECHR

 

[EddieM]

Well I hope then they realise that you will defer to the state instead of trusting your instincts / familial knowledge should something happen to them, and when they need you the most.

Although given your indifference as to your parental role, maybe in your case the state indeed does know best!

PS. Why don't you acknowledge the Aysha King case?
(There are plenty more examples!)

perhaps because you edited your post?

 

[EddieM]

Well I hope then they realise that you will defer to the state instead of trusting your instincts / familial knowledge should something happen to them, and when they need you the most.

Although given your indifference as to your parental role, maybe in your case the state indeed does know best!

PS. Why don't you acknowledge the Aysha King case?
(There are plenty more examples!)

Ok read a bit about it... and?

 

[Notch7]

PS. Why don't you acknowledge the Aysha King case?

Aysha King case was very different medically, so its a bit pointless making a comparison.

In the Alfie case, every expert in this country and around the world agreed.

Unfortunately, however, there is nothing any doctor can do for Alfie. He has a rapidly progressive, destructive brain disease and has been in a coma for the majority of his short life. On careful assessment by a paediatric neurology consultant, he showed no response to tactile, visual, auditory or sensory stimulation. The experts are unanimous that the degeneration of his brain is catastrophic and untreatable. The fact that very recently Alfie has survived longer off ventilation than expected does not change the fact that his condition is untreatable, his quality of life is extremely poor, and that according to the Consultant respiratory paediatrician involved in his case, any of his negligible responses to movement, light or sound are either due to basic reflex, seizures, or discomfort

http://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-the-latest-on-alfie-evans/

 

[ellal]

Nor indeed, the ECHR

Indeed not...

State organisations (from whatever origin) do not always know better than parents!

 

[EddieM]

n

Are you really that thick that you don't understand what PS means?

no it's Latin I believe for post script.

 

[Notch7]

State organisations (from whatever origin) do not always know better than parents!

Not always no. In the Alfie case, yes.

State organisations also intervene when parents refuse to allow blood transfusions on religious grounds, so it cuts both ways.

 

[Notch7]

And the 'experts' in the Czech republic also disagreed with the UK 'experts' as regards Aysha King!

But keep on digging that hole of yours, because you are just solidifying our vision of your stupidity

Ha ha, your narrowmindeness prevents you from learning.

ut not some 'experts' in Italy as regards Alfie...

Id be interested in seeing some links that show Italian experts were able to offer new treatment options.

In Alfie’s case, none of the foreign experts have offered any new treatment, or any new outlook for Alfie. The Italian specialists have apparently indicated that they believe that his care should be palliative

 

[ellal]

n

no it's Latin I believe for post script.

Funny thing is earlier you thought 'PS' was 'editing'...

But hey, you carry on 'educating' your '3' as you think best - I'm sure they'll thank you later

.

 

[EddieM]

Funny thing is earlier you thought 'PS' was 'editing'...

But hey, you carry on 'educating' your '3' as you think best - I'm sure they'll thank you later

I'm happy with my level of education thanks.

 

[EddieM]

You're an ********************
And if you feel the need to defer decisions that you couldn't begin to understand to 'authority', then that says a lot about your lack of individual thinking!

do you have to put effort in to looking like an idiot, or does it just come naturally?

 

[transam]

Mt Justice Hayden ruled on Tuesday that it was not in the childs interests to take him to Italy, he also criticsised the "Malign hand" of Pavel Stroilov a law student
whom he described as a case worker for the Christian legal centre , after the court was told that he encouraged the parents to lodge a private prosecution of hospital doctors , alleging murder.

 

[SirGalahad]

Surely the medical profession used the courts? Had they allowed Alfie to go to Italy, there would have been no impasse.

I will respond in this thread

I thought you worked as a medical professional. Here is a timeline of the events and the reply from the hospital. The medical professionals did not use the courts. The law is clear, the judges even after appeal all came to the same conclusion.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/apr/28/alfie-evans-timeline-of-key-events


The response by the Hospital

http://www.alderhey.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/FAQs-FINAL-220318-1.pdf

"Because Alder Hey is a specialist centre we have good links with other centres and at an early stage we obtained external opinions to try and inform his treatment. Our doctors also invited the family to suggest experts that they thought might assist. The family identified two independent experts and a team of three experts from a hospital in Rome. We cooperated fully with them all and they are unanimous in their agreement that Alfie’s condition is irreversible and untreatable."

"Alfie’s case we are in the very unusual situation where agreement has not been reached following many discussions and mediation meetings. The clinical team believe that continued active treatment is futile and not in Alfie’s best interests. In those circumstances we refer the case to the Family Division of the High Court where a Judge with great experience of these cases has considered all the relevant evidence and determined whether active treatment is in Alfie’s best interests."

10. Why isn’t the decision on his care left to the parents?

Children of Alfie’s age cannot speak for themselves and cannot decide whether or not they should continue to have medical treatment. Usually a parent will take that decision for them. Where there is a disagreement about a child’s treatment and the court intervenes, the Judge focuses on the child’s best interests. The views of the parents will be very important in reaching a decision on ‘best interests’ but they do not give the parent an absolute right. Decisions relating to medical treatment in children have been taken on this basis for many years. In Alfie’s case, his parents tried to challenge that approach in their appeal from the decision of Mr Justice Hayden. That appeal was dismissed by the Court of Appeal. The parents then tried to appeal to the Supreme Court but this application was also rejected.

11. Have you consulted other experts/opinions?

Yes. Alfie’s condition and treatment have been discussed in multi-disciplinary team meetings at Alder Hey which has included specialist neurologists and radiologists. Alfie’s case has also been discussed with various other clinicians at Alder Hey. At the beginning of last year, Alder Hey approached experts at Manchester Children’s Hospital and later on at Great Ormond Street Hospital. We have also liaised with other specialist centres regarding Alfie’s treatment. Alfie’s parents have also asked for further opinions from hospitals in Stoke, Rome and Germany. We have welcomed this and arranged for these clinicians to visit and investigate Alfie’s case. As we indicate above, all the experts are agreed that Alfie’s condition is untreatable and that there is no benefit to him of further investigation. All have agreed with our team at Alder Hey that in the tragic circumstances of Alfie’s case there is sadly no hope of recovery.

12. Why won’t you let him to go to Rome for treatment?

Three clinicians from Rome visited Alfie in September 2017, discussed his case with the team here and reviewed his notes. Following their detailed assessment, they agreed with the conclusions of the Alder Hey team that Alfie’s condition was effectively untreatable. Significantly, they noted that given Alfie’s epilepsy, there was a risk of him suffering further brain injury if he was transferred abroad. They have offered to take him to their hospital but agree there is nothing they can do to help or improve his condition. Further invasive procedures have been suggested but these will not help him recover. Our clinicians are professionally obliged to always consider what is in a patient’s best interest. We do not believe that it is in Alfie’s best interests to go to Rome and be subjected to invasive and procedures when there is no hope of recovery or a cure.


The dishonest way that the advisers to Tom Evans acted.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...als-ambitious-but-deliverable-removals-target

A source close to the case has told the Guardian that Broesamle arranged for doctors to fly in from overseas to pose as family friends and medically examine Alfie. A paediatric oncologist, Dr Katarzyna Jakowska, and a colleague allegedly assessed both Alfie Evans and Isaiah Haastrup, a one-year-old child at the centre of a similar life-support battle, on the same day at different hospitals under the guise of being family friends.

On Wednesday appeal court judges called for a wider investigation into concerns that the parents’ legal representation “may have been infiltrated or compromised”. The Guardian has learned that an international network of Catholic fundamentalists has played a growing role in advising Alfie’s parents

In court, Pavel Stroilov, the Christian Legal Centre law student representing Alfie’s parents, came in for the most searing criticism this week. He was described by Hayden as a “fanatical and deluded young man” whose submissions to the court were “littered with vituperation and bile” that was “inconsistent with the real interests of the parents’ case”.

A Russian exile who has worked as a researcher for the current Ukip leader, Gerard Batten, since 2011, Stroilov was behind the attempt by Alfie’s parents to pursue a private prosecution for murder against three Alder Hey doctors.

It is understood that Alder Hey’s legal team is considering pursuing a contempt of court case against Stroilov unless he provides details of his legal qualifications. “There are grave concerns about the wholly misleading advice that was provided by Mr Stroilov,” said a source close to Alder Hey’s legal team. Stroilov did not respond to a request for comment.

 

[EddieM]

and did alfies army ever consider the other desperately sick children in Alder Hey.... no... probably not.

look it's desperately sad for the parents and Alfie, but the treatment of him was correct.