Aluminium DG, condensation etc.

[GJD]

I've seen most of the threads re: condensation etc. I'd appreciate comments on my issues. Brief background:

The property is a 1980's detached bungalow which has been completely refurbished internally to include garage conversion, underfloor heating (wet, under screed) replacement of all internal walls etc, insulating plasterboard to external walls, new plumbing, bathrooms etc. The windows & doors (bifolds & French) are aluminium framed DG and are A rated for energy etc. and were installed in April, the property being inhabited in July.

There have been numerous issues with the installation, including replacement of the majority of internal gaskets, re-alignment of all opening windows etc. The major outstanding issue is that in the bedrooms (one in particular) the aluminium frame cools down overnight by approx 8°C and condensation occurs on the frame and on some days the glass, as this takes it below the dew point. The room temperature is set to 22° during the day and 18° overnight (which it rarely gets to). The window feels and sounds as if there is a window open and the cold can be felt spreading down to the floor.

The installer & supplier are are responding to the condensation with the usual responses, and failing to understand that the issue is the window cooling to levels below the dew point as the external temperature drops. The issue has been raised with the manufacturer, but I'm not hopeful.

Is there some external independent authority who can test the windows and their installation and comment on the standards?

Any comment and assistance gratefully received!

 

[foxhole]

Was he Fensa registered?

 

[crank39]

Was he Fensa registered?

So long as the install complies with regs then fensa will have nothing to do with it

 

[crank39]

The window feels and sounds as if there is a window open and the cold can be felt spreading down to the floor.

What is the installer doing about this? Have they been to inspect, maybe there is an excessive gap around the frame which needs foaming and hasn't been, maybe locks need adjusting for more compression, the noise could be a various things. Cold spreading down to the floor will almost certainly be convection, warm air rising against the window and as it cools falls back to floor, most homeowners suspect a draughty window.

 

[GJD]

The installer was not FENSA registered. The supplier is but didn't do the install so I'm assuming wouldn't issue one. I checked with the company that did Building Regs control & they said:

'The u-values of elements of a building construction, which includes windows, are only controlled when the work involves a new building or an extension. Your application was for internal alterations and improvements and therefore our control was to ensure that the thermal envelope was no worse than prior to the commencement of the work.'

Local council Building Control will issue a Regularisation Certificate after an inspection for approx £400, but I'm unsure as to what they will certify, given the above comment from the Building Control people.

 

[GJD]

The window feels and sounds as if there is a window open and the cold can be felt spreading down to the floor.

What is the installer doing about this? Have they been to inspect, maybe there is an excessive gap around the frame which needs foaming and hasn't been, maybe locks need adjusting for more compression, the noise could be a various things. Cold spreading down to the floor will almost certainly be convection, warm air rising against the window and as it cools falls back to floor, most homeowners suspect a draughty window.

The installer has been back 4 or 5 times, replaced most of the internal gaskets, adjusted all the locks for compression, there's no gaps around the frames (i.e. there is silicon sealer externally around the frames) and has passed it to his supplier who won't even visit to try and understand the issues. However, given that an installer would do an initial install that needed all this work I'm not confident he knows what he's doing. The manufacturer has sent a representative to identify & correct some other issues (beading under sized, handles incorrectly fitted etc) and I await their response.

All the windows are in new brickwork to some degree. i.e. the bedroom in question is entirely new, as is the kitchen which never gets condensation. The windows and doors are classed as A for energy performance.

 

[AronSearle]

Can the manufacturer provide

* Section drawings for the windows.

* Installation instructions

Either the frame is poor and allowing thermal bridging, or it has been fitted so as to compromise the frame (i.e. no foam fill around the cavity).

Is there some external independent authority who can test the windows and their installation and comment on the standards?

Yes, but decent organisations will be charging commercial rates.

If you want to pay a few hundred only, then look for independents, and you take your chances

 

[Su Smith]

I am new to this site and am wondering what the solution was to the damp aluminium doors mentioned. My aluminium doors were fitted 3 weeks ago and condensation at the base of the frame has appeared. The fitter returned to fill the gaps outside with sealant and it helped with the problem for 2 days or should I say 2 mornings. I never had condensation problems with my upvc doors before and now I am at my wits end.

I have read so many threads that I can guess now there is a fault with the brand new doors as the sealant has not resolved the problem. Some hope from the forum, maybe....?

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Should've started your own thread really, anyway does the door have a thermal break? Aluminum is sometimes not a good choice of material IMO for this reason.

 

[Su Smith]

Freddie you are right, I should have started my own post but I only just signed up a few minutes ago and still working my way through the site. Yes, the doors have thermal break.

 

[Gazman16]

Out of interest what make are they? Apart from bifolding doors for the strength I would never recommend aluminum windows for a domestic house

 

[Su Smith]

Gazman, the doors were ordered through a local windows/door company and their invoice describes the doors as brown aluminium double glazed French doors with solar control. Regards, Su

 

[Gazman16]

No make then, I was just wondering was all.
I used to make and fit Monarch/Sapa back when I first started. I usually manage to talk people out of ali for windows and doors now except for bifolds as PVC ones are a pain and need lots of adjusting as a general rule.

Can you post some pics inside and out of the worst effected windows? (showing whats above and around the windows too) There may be something that is more obvious in a photo.

 

[Su Smith]

Pictures attached. Condensation on base of frame on outside, not on glass. Sealant that fitter came and plugged holes outside has improved on below pictures and now left with damp on second base of frame and difficult to photo damp. Do you think it could be localised cooling because thermal break faulty or fitter still has more sealant to apply to outside. I am having a meeting with windows company in the morning and would be grateful for your view so I am not given the b.s. Regards Su

 

[Gazman16]

I meant pics of the whole of the window showing what is around under and above, So we can see the sealant, Walls, Lintels etc.
It wont be a problem with the thermal break other than the fact they are Ali. It is most likely either a moisture problem inside the house or thermal bridging somewhere.