Am I allowed to disconect/connect a cooker in someone house?

[scarypants]

What have I not explained?
Your the repetitive one.
That simple question you asked time and time agian....... has been answered a long the way I explained why I would do it, you simply don't except my answer. Get over it, I'm sure you've got better things to do, I have.
You keep asking the same question and have given you the same answer.
You have problem mate and persistence and discrediting comments are what you fuel your replies with.
I have given my answers, if I had carried out in practice what I suggested I would do in the situations you have applied to this post.
I would be happy that I have acted responsible.
Just tell me what do you want me to answer, instead of being critical.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

What have I not explained?

You have not explained why you think that there is a different duty of care concerning the existing fixed installation, or a different set of concerns over the existing fixed installation, or a different level of checking/testing/inspecting of the existing fixed installation needed when connecting an appliance to the existing fixed installation via an outlet plate than when connecting it via a plug and socket.

Your the repetitive one.
That simple question you asked time and time agian....... has been answered a long the way I explained why I would do it,

You have not explained why you would do it, you just keep repeating that you would because you think that there is a difference in relation to the existing fixed installation when an appliance is connected via an outlet plate instead of a plug and socket.

you simply don't except my answer.

Because you have never answered my question - you have never given a logical or consistent or factual or engineering- or regulatory- or legal-based explanation of why there is a difference in the concern someone should have over the integrity of an existing final circuit when connecting an appliance to it via an outlet plate than when connecting an appliance to it via a plug and socket.

You keep asking the same question and have given you the same answer.

You keep giving the same reply. Not once have you given an answer.

You have problem mate and persistence and discrediting comments are what you fuel your replies with.

The problem I have is that you made an assertion to the OP that he needed to be concerned about certain things in some situations but not others, and you then refused every request to explain why he should have those concerns only in some situations but not others.

I have given my answers, if I had carried out in practice what I suggested I would do in the situations you have applied to this post.

Indeed you have, but you've never provided a logical explanation for the lack of consistency in what you would do when situations differ in ways which are completely irrelevant.

Just tell me what do you want me to answer, instead of being critical.

I want you to tell us why Matty should be concerned about whether the circuit installer had used the correct protective device for cable size and output values, and would be advised to undertake certain investigative steps, when connecting an appliance via an outlet plate but need not have the same concerns and need not do the same investigation when connecting an appliance via a plug and socket.

 

[scarypants]

I want you to tell us why Matty should be concerned about whether the circuit installer had used the correct protective device for cable size and output values, and would be advised to undertake certain investigative steps, when connecting an appliance via an outlet plate but need not have the same concerns and need not do the same investigation when connecting an appliance via a plug and socket.

I have already answered this question and explained why. You don't agree or choose to ignore it.

I accept in principle (electrical principles) the circuits are almost indentical, with the exception of the outlet-plate.
Matty disconnected the cooker-outlet not the socket-outlet, his concerns were to do with the dis/reconnection of the cooker, I would when going through the procedures of disconnecting the cooker, use safe isolation and do a visual on that circuit because I'm on it and it,s a logical thing to do. Hopefully the circuit is as it should be regarding the fuse rating to serve the output of the cooker and suitable to protect the cable, if it wasn't I'd offer my concerns to the householder/client.
As a responsible person.
If I was unplugging and plugging back a kettle etc, not at anytime have been in contact with the internal parts of that circuit, if I had noticed a problem that I thought was a concern whilst at CU isolating/energizing the cooker circuit, or sparks coming from the outlet whilst brewing up, again even though I had not disconnected or touch any internal parts of that circuit. I would offer my concerns to householder/client.
I have done something terrible or wrong by making this suggestion?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I have already answered this question and explained why. You don't agree or choose to ignore it.

No - you have not answered it.

You have said what you do in passing whilst isolating the circuit.

You have not once given any rational explanation of why Matty should be MORE CONCERNED about whether the installer used the right combination of cable and protective device when connecting an appliance via a flex outlet plate than when via a plug and socket.

I accept in principle (electrical principles) the circuits are almost indentical, with the exception of the outlet-plate.

"Almost identical"? We're back to your inability to grasp what is relevant.

In relation to the areas you believe are of special concern, i.e. fault loop values, the current carrying capacity of the cable, the relationship between Ib, In & Iz etc, please explain in what way those are affected by the presence of a flex outlet plate.

Matty disconnected the cooker-outlet not the socket-outlet,

No he didn't, he disconnected the cooker.

his concerns were to do with the dis/reconnection of the cooker, I would when going through the procedures of disconnecting the cooker, use safe isolation and do a visual on that circuit because I'm on it and it,s a logical thing to do.

You're hardly "on it" - you haven't opened the CU, you haven't traced the cable route, you haven't done any tests other than verify that it's isolated so that you can safely remove the cooker cable from the terminals. You have no idea what the volt-drop will be, you have no idea what the CCC of the cable is in practice, you have no idea if the protective device would operate in time, you have no idea if the insulation resistance of the cable is OK, you have no idea if any RCD is operating correctly....

But in any event, your practice of "I might as well do this little XYZ while I'm at it" is NOT a logical explanation with any engineering or regulatory basis for why Matty should be more concerned about whether the original installation installer did his job properly when he's re-connecting an appliance via an outlet plate than when he's connecting it via a plug and socket.

Hopefully the circuit is as it should be regarding the fuse rating to serve the output of the cooker and suitable to protect the cable, if it wasn't I'd offer my concerns to the householder/client.

Hopefully the circuit is, as hopefully all of them are.

Please explain why Matty should be more concerned about whether it is or not when he's faced with an outlet plate than if he's faced with a socket.

Please explain the way in which an outlet plate rather than a socket affects the circuit in ways which relate to the suitability of the fuse rating and the cable size.

As a responsible person.
If I was unplugging and plugging back a kettle etc, not at anytime have been in contact with the internal parts of that circuit, if I had noticed a problem that I thought was a concern whilst at CU isolating/energizing the cooker circuit, or sparks coming from the outlet whilst brewing up, again even though I had not disconnected or touch any internal parts of that circuit. I would offer my concerns to householder/client.

Indeed you would.

Please explain how the presence of an outlet plate makes the circuit more of a concern than does a socket.

I have done something terrible or wrong by making this suggestion?

What you've done wrong is to refuse, over and over and over again to explain how the presence of an outlet plate affects the circuit, and therefore changes the concerns someone should have about it, and to claim that simply repeating over and over and over again what you would do is actually an explanation which I am choosing to reject.

 

[scarypants]

bas,
Your trying to plant an acorn to grow an oak tree, I would simply make sure the protective device was suitable to assure the cable was not in danger of over heating and setting on fire and cooker would cook the sunday roast whilst the veg was on. A simple look at the breaker/fuse and cable. Nothing more if it looked okay!
That's what I would do! Matty can do what the hell he likes, He can ignore me and take your advise, it's up to him, if he feels your advise is helpful logical and consistent, go with it Matty I won't be hurt by your choice.
I made a suggestion on what I'd do, you asked me to explain why I'd do it. I've done that, you for some ignorant reason refuse to except my answer. It's not going to change my thought process.
If I went to a board to isolate a circuit and found that a 45A device was protecting a 1.00mm CSA length of T+E or singles cable. On the circuit I was isolating and working on or one I was not. I ain't going to ignore the fact of it's potential danger and say "it has b*****r all to do with me" and when I do re-energize the circuit p**s off home, have tea put my feet up and think What a wonderful day I have had. I've been logical, I've been consistent. There was no way I was going to make that circuit safe for that young family. Because I would then be considered to be illogical, inconsistent, not competent and a time waster! Plus I would have had to charge loads of money because I love to rip innocent venerable people off She never made me brew anyway just as well or I would have had the consumer unit in bits and the socket-outlets off the wall. Then I would have needed to get my meters out and test for R1+R2, IR, dead and live polarity,Ze, Zs. The RCDs. That's two and a half grand love
Thank you God! for an afternoon without a brew. Must take my little Camp stove with me next time. So don't have to worry about being brewless and someones electrical installation

 

[ban-all-sheds]

That's what I would do!

So you keep saying.

And yet again another complete failure to explain why a circuit with a an outlet plate carries with it different concerns from one without.

I made a suggestion on what I'd do, you asked me to explain why I'd do it. I've done that, you for some ignorant reason refuse to except my answer.

There you go with your lies again. You haven't given an answer.

You have not explained why a circuit with an outlet plate is different to one with.

It's not going to change my thought process.

Do you actually have one?

If I went to a board to isolate a circuit and found that a 45A device was protecting a 1.00mm CSA length of T+E or singles cable. On the circuit I was isolating and working on or one I was not. I ain't going to ignore the fact of it's potential danger and say "it has b*****r all to do with me" and when I do re-energize the circuit p**s off home, have tea put my feet up and think What a wonderful day I have had. I've been logical, I've been consistent. There was no way I was going to make that circuit safe for that young family. Because I would then be considered to be illogical, inconsistent, not competent and a time waster! Plus I would have had to charge loads of money because I love to rip innocent venerable people off She never made me brew anyway just as well or I would have had the consumer unit in bits and the socket-outlets off the wall. Then I would have needed to get my meters out and test for R1+R2, IR, dead and live polarity,Ze, Zs. The RCDs. That's two and a half grand love
Thank you God! for an afternoon without a brew. Must take my little Camp stove with me next time. So don't have to worry about being brewless and someones electrical installation

And in a pathetically failed attempt to try to make a question about how an outlet plate makes a circuit different appear ridiculous and unanswerable you come out with nonsense like that.

 

[scarypants]

Answer;
If both these circuits are assumed to be radial circuits, in principle there is no difference to the way these circuits are constructed, the only difference in this instance is that an outlet-plate is used for a cooker and socket-outlets (for the other fictional circuit that has been brought in to this debate) to energize the appliances that are connected in to it these circuits
The fuse rating maybe different and with that the size of the cable.
Depending on other factors.

So what was the answer?
I'm dying to know, I'm on the edge of my seat!