Am I allowed to do this to my lighting circuit?

[Dylan T]

Hi all -

I'm planning a small bathroom makeover and wanted to know if it's within allowable work for me to do the following 2 tasks myself as a non-electrician:

1) Add an isolation switch to the existing fan which runs off the switched live in the bathroom light pendant. No other changes, just want to mount a wall switch as
I believe this is now needed anyway.
2) There is a powered mirror that has either a spur or a radial (As there's only one wire) on the lighting circuit. I would like to spur off this again to have a shaver socket as I believe shaver sockets can run off lighting or mains (or run this wire to the socket and spur off that back to the mirror, they're in the same area).

Thanks

 

[ericmark]

Bathroom is a special location, so you need to inform LABC first, and pay there fees, in Wales £100 plus vat was the going rate, plus any fees for inspection and testing. So yes you can do it, but likely cost more than getting a scheme member to do the work.

Personally I would not be too worried, but you asked what is allowed.

 

[EFLImpudence]

I'm planning a small bathroom makeover and wanted to know if it's within allowable work for me to do the following 2 tasks myself as a non-electrician:

1) Add an isolation switch to the existing fan which runs off the switched live in the bathroom light pendant. No other changes, just want to mount a wall switch as
I believe this is now needed anyway.

Not needed; don't bother.

2) There is a powered mirror that has either a spur or a radial (As there's only one wire) on the lighting circuit. I would like to spur off this again to have a shaver socket as I believe shaver sockets can run off lighting or mains (or run this wire to the socket and spur off that back to the mirror, they're in the same area).

IF this work is within the bathroom zones - i.e. within 600mm. horizontally from shower or bath - then you should notify the LA before you start.

If it is not and you are in England then carry on.

 

[JohnW2]

Bathroom is a special location, so you need to inform LABC first, and pay there fees, ......

As we have pointed out many times, and as EFLI has said, only bathroom zones count as a 'special location', hence requiring notification.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ericmark]

As we have pointed out many times, and as EFLI has said, only bathroom zones count as a 'special location', hence requiring notification.

Kind Regards, John

Good point, not re-read in ages, I thought kitchens, outside, and bathrooms were special locations here in Wales, but only bathrooms in England, but you may well be correct to it only being zones in England.

 

[EFLImpudence]

I thought kitchens, outside, and bathrooms were special locations here in Wales, but only bathrooms in England, but you may well be correct to it only being zones in England.

Nope - it has been the same in Wales for the nineteen years since introduction - 'special locations' are just within the zones of wet areas.

Kitchens and outside are not special locations but mentioned specifically.

From Schedule 4 (still used in Wales):

The Building Regulations 2010

These Regulations revoke and replace the Building Regulations 2000 (S.I. 2000/2531) (“the 2000 Regulations”), and consolidate all subsequent amendments to those Regulations with minor amendments. The amendments include removing the requirement, where building work involves inserting insulation...

www.legislation.gov.uk

The confusion is because the definition of 'special location' is different than BS7671.

 

[JohnW2]

Good point, not re-read in ages, I thought kitchens, outside, and bathrooms were special locations here in Wales, but only bathrooms in England, but you may well be correct to it only being zones in England.

As EFLI has said, not just England, it's the same in Wales.

 

[JohnW2]

The confusion is because the definition of 'special location' is different than BS7671.

I'm not sure how that can be the case, because (a) I don't think that BS7671 provides an explicit definition of 'special location' and (b) the definition in Schedule 4 of the Building Regs referred specifically (as you have quoted) to the bathroom zones as defined in BS7671:2008.

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

I'm not sure how that can be the case, because (a) I don't think that BS7671 provides an explicit definition of 'special location'

You are correct; it does not; but is that in itself not different than the definition in The Building Regulations?

After all the heading of Part 7 of BS7671 is;

So without an actual definition, does that not imply that all those things are special locations or special installations?

and (b) the definition in Schedule 4 of the Building Regs referred specifically (as you have quoted) to the bathroom zones as defined in BS7671:2008.

It does and when zone 3 existed and contained all of most people's bathrooms it was reasonable to think that the 'special location' was the whole bathroom so I suppose people continued with that in their minds.

After all, when zone 3 was removed did anyone think "Oh, that's good; I can now work in bathrooms outside zone 2 without notifying"?

 

[EFLImpudence]

Does (or did) this clarify the situation or confuse it further?

Surely that means that the zones are not actually in the location.

 

[JohnW2]

After all the heading of Part 7 of BS7671 is; ................ So without an actual definition, does that not imply that all those things are special locations or special installations?

I don't think one can (should!) draw much in the way of conclusions about 'definitions' from the titles of Sections

It does and when zone 3 existed and contained all of most people's bathrooms it was reasonable to think that the 'special location' was the whole bathroom so I suppose people continued with that in their minds.

Yes, maybe.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

Does (or did) this clarify the situation or confuse it further? View attachment 334607
Surely that means that the zones are not actually in the location.

Do you mean because of "....and the surrounding zones as described ..... "?

If so, don't they mean the zones surrounding the bath or shower, rather than 'surrounding the location'?

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

Do you mean because of "....and the surrounding zones as described ..... "?

Yes, "and".

If so, don't they mean the zones surrounding the bath or shower, rather than 'surrounding the location'?

They do (I presume) but that means the zones are not in the location containing a bath etc.

"The particular requirements of this section apply to the electrical installations in locations containing a fixed bath
(bath tub, birthing pool) or shower and to the surrounding zones as described in these regulations."

 

[JohnW2]

They do (I presume) but that means the zones are not in the location containing a bath etc.
"The particular requirements of this section apply to the electrical installations in locations containing a fixed bath
(bath tub, birthing pool) or shower and to the surrounding zones as described in these regulations."

Agreed. Badly worded - although (dare I say it>? ) I presume that we understand correctly what they were trying/intending ti write?

 

[blup]

As we have pointed out many times, and as EFLI has said, only bathroom zones count as a 'special location', hence requiring notification.

Kind Regards, John

Where is it stated the iso switch is outside the zones?