Antiquated supply?

[diyhell]

Just bought a 1930's house and have had a quick check over the electrics.

Am intrigued because the supply comes into hallway from under the floor into a cast iron Y shape, with the phase & neutrals each going through a separate fuse wire (behind a cover - but not sealed) and then dissapearing into the wall to reappear further up at the meter. Never seen anything like it. Consumer unit is black with 6 blade wired fuses.

It's obviously been rewired at some point as there's grey pvc tc&e on the 2 upstairs and downstairs ring. Sockets are all skirting mounted. Lighting circuit goes through conduit and is individual cable. Most sockets and switches are in good condition if old. There's no equipotential bonding in the bathroom or kitchen (but there is to the gas and water supplies) but these are being replaced and will obviously be done as part of this.

The only thing that may signify the wiring's age is the green (not green & yellow) sheath on the earth - and maybe the 1977 paper I found under the boards!

Now - if it's all junk then it gets a rewire. But given that it looks OK I thought I'd get an electrician to check it and if it's OK simply replace the sockets and switches. But there's that nagging doubt...will the cable have aged, is the lighting circuit ok in its original conduit and is it OK to have sockets skirting mounted?

Any thoughts appreciated...

 

[breezer]

its all too old, rewire the lot

 

[diyhell]

Fair enough. Is it unusual to find that sort of supply coming in? I've never seen it before in friends flats around here (Edinburgh).

Forgot to mention that garage supply is armoured cable from CU but on same fuse as cooker unit and goes through a separate CU in the garage in which the fuse has gone because the tc&e shorted where it went into a backbox with no grommets...

Pass me the cheque book & bring on the electrician!

 

[plugwash]

if cable passes an insulation resistance test and is in good condition and suitablly size there is no reason not to keep it

but if you are working diy you won't have the tools to check this

nothing to stop you rewireing it yourself but you should at least read up on earthing and check what earthing system yours is and what the special requirements relateing to it are first

imho rewireing is easier than makeing additons because you don't have to worry about what previous morons have done

 

[ban-all-sheds]

You may or may not need a complete rewire, but it might be easier than a partial one.

You have a number of issues:

1) You don't know how much of the wiring was replaced

2) You don't know how good a job was done

3) You don't know for sure when it was done, and older PVC cable doesn't have the same lifespan as modern stuff (as an aside - is it solid-core cable, or stranded? If the latter it should go).

4) As well as attending to the bonding, you should replace the CU.

5) You need to get the REC to come and do something about the incoming service - it's been a l o o n n g g time since there were fuses in the neutral, and having the neutral fused is a Bad Thing.

 

[diyhell]

Thanks for the info.

I'd noticed there was stranded on one of the circuits (lighting or ring) and thought this might indicate doom... Wouldn't it be useful if the EU regs stated that there should be a date stamp on pcv sheathing as well as as colour change

Am interested in the conduit thing - there was another thread somewhere that mentioned this and talked of rewiring using single cable and not tc & e. What's the normal procedure for wiring when solid conduit's in place?

CU's a go go and would like to move it - hopefully the elec board will be helpful and move their meter at the same time as replacing the old meter & fuses.

BTW am a proud owner of garage now - too small for any car these days so destined to become a 'shed'. Now, what's wrong with sheds, ban-all-sheds?

 

[ZenStalinist]

Wouldn't it be useful if the EU regs stated that there should be a date stamp on pcv sheathing as well as as colour change

Yeah, but it would be 25 years before it was of any use. Besides, that stranded wiring was probably put in before we even joined the EU.

 

[plugwash]

i thought pvc wireing was allowed to be kept until it failed an insulation resistance test

 

[ZenStalinist]

IT might well be. I don't know., But it'll be old if it's stranded, and old enough to be worth replacing. It might pass a test today, but it's at the age where it's going to fail someday, and it may well be before it's next test. Best not chance it . I reccomend a rewire.

You should call your electricity company RE the supply, it's neither in your nor their interests to keep it like that, and they should have replaced it (as it's so old it could be a potential safety hazard to you, and as it's unsealed it wouldn't be too hard for you to steal electricity with nobody noticing.)

I believe the dual fuse type supply systems went out in the early 60s.

with the phase & neutrals each going through a separate fuse wire

Just out of interest... Is i t a three phase install?

 

[plugwash]

if you are going to get them to change it do your rewire first

haveing broken seals twice in a row is probablly a bad thing

 

[AdamW]

Now, I have never looked at my leccy meter, and it's 12:30am so I can't be a**ed to go outside and find it.

Am I right in thinking there is no switch on it, and the only way to isolate the supply to change a CU is to break a seal and pull a fuse?

That's safe.

If they can fit a shut-off valve to every gas meter, surely they should put a switch on electricity meters.

 

[plugwash]

some modern meters have isolaotrs built in and some recs fit them as seperate units but this is not usual

which does leave the only means of isolation as breaking the seal and pulling the service fuse

 

[securespark]

built-in iso's of most meters that have them are only SP.

Best fit a 100A (or 125A if you have a 125A supply) DP switch. (a CU style DP iso in a din rail enclosure should suffice)

 

[ban-all-sheds]

BTW am a proud owner of garage now - too small for any car these days so destined to become a 'shed'. Now, what's wrong with sheds, ban-all-sheds?

That's not the sort of shed I mean....

 

[diyhell]

ZenStalinist wrote:

Just out of interest... Is i t a three phase install?

Nah I plan to replace it in one go (boom boom)

Sorry, long day... Single phase - just antiquated.

I can see this dragging on as the supply fuses are wired not cartridges. Am I right in thinking that the elec board won't provide the supply to an untested system? Is so, they'll have to come out and cut the supply (I like my life too much to snip those fuse wires ) then come out again once the rewire is complete...

BTW, do the regs allow sockets in skirting? Aside from being annoying with moulded plugs (too close to the floor to allow them to plug in) are they a hazard to life and limb?