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Any idea where i can get MEM (old) to MCB converters ???
- Thread starter SausageEggRollWithKetchup
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i basically see 5 main issues
1: rewirable fuses
2: those burn marks (hard to tell how serious they are from here though)
3: no rcds
4: no main bonding to gas and water pipes
5: the earth connection to the service cable is a bit dodgy (though you do see plenty like that with a clamp on the cable sheath)
1: rewirable fuses
2: those burn marks (hard to tell how serious they are from here though)
3: no rcds
4: no main bonding to gas and water pipes
5: the earth connection to the service cable is a bit dodgy (though you do see plenty like that with a clamp on the cable sheath)
Still can't see any main bonding conductors - hopefully they are inside the CU.SausageEggRollWithKetchup said:
That burn damage is still pretty nasty.
That earth clamp is still suspect.
No RCD - do you live in a house or a flat?
Is that meter only rated at 40A?
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Amazes me the state of some REC kit up country - If we saw that down here, we make a note of it on the completion cert sent to the REC, and they would usually tidy it up!!
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Lect - I have now spoken to 4 of my REC's sparks who say they don't bother returning the Comp Certs I fill in.........
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it is a 3 bedroom house i live in, in farnham, surrey (up country?), as far as i know (if it's relevant) the 1st red is cooker, 2nd is whole house ring main (both floors), 3rd (scorched) was another blue 15A which was an electric fire in the living room which i have now totally removed, 4th is lights both floors and the last one is spare (unused as far as i can see).
i have never had any problems or blown fuses (alright just once but that was my own stupid fault on a new second light switch). i have not seen any bonding on any pipes, plus all the lighting wiring is in 2 core (no earth) cable, even the bathroom. how much does a reasonably good replacement consumer unit cost nowadays, to replace what i have? bearing in mind that i am decorating and sprucing most things up in order to sell the house next year - should i leave this to the next owner perhaps?
i have never had any problems or blown fuses (alright just once but that was my own stupid fault on a new second light switch). i have not seen any bonding on any pipes, plus all the lighting wiring is in 2 core (no earth) cable, even the bathroom. how much does a reasonably good replacement consumer unit cost nowadays, to replace what i have? bearing in mind that i am decorating and sprucing most things up in order to sell the house next year - should i leave this to the next owner perhaps?
You need a lot more than just a new consumer unit - you need a major overhaul of your entire electrical installation - probably a complete rewire.
It would be dishonest and potentially dangerous for you to "spruce up" the CU to make everything look OK without doing the rest - better to leave it as it is so that a purchaser knows what he's getting.
It would be dishonest and potentially dangerous for you to "spruce up" the CU to make everything look OK without doing the rest - better to leave it as it is so that a purchaser knows what he's getting.
Come on BAS, why does everyone have to be so negative? You just said it would be dangerous to fit a modern CU with breakers and a built in RCD instead of fusewire! Without wishing to belabour the new part P regulations again, the main justification for them came down to trying to get people to fit RCD. Totally spurious argument I reckon, but that was what the government claimed.
It is NOT adding to any danger to replace the CU. (Make sure the work is actuallly done safely, of course)
It is perfectly feasible to add earth bonding of incoming services as a stand alone job, if this is not in place. Depending on where the gas/water supplies come in, it may be quite straightforward. Similarly, adding bathroom supplementary bonding may not be too difficult or require major upheaval.
These things can be done as separate jobs and ADD to safety. No one should say they are not worth doing alone.
My own reaction was to query what you said about the fuses, sausage. You counted them wrongly and (hopefully) missed out a blue. I hope you meant the last one shown (white) is for the lights, and the last missing one is the spare? I would be concerned to find that a blue spot 15A was running the lights.
As to lighting circuits with no earth. This is not the worst fault possible. It mostly causes a problem if you want metal fittings. If you use normal plastic insulated switches then it is not such a problem. Think twice before fitting metal chandeliers too.
The most important point is that cables are in good condition. The missing fuse shows spectacular damage from melted fusewire, but this is most likely cause by a dead short rather than overloading. (gives a bigger bang!) Presumably the cables are ok. If they are, then while they may be aging like all of us, PVC lasts well in normal use. No need to rip the house to pieces to replace it just for reasons of age.
Just one ring. When it was installed this would undoubtedly be standard. People have become more diverse since then in their needs, but most households can still run perfectly well on one power circuit. People are still wiring new houses that way. Though probably because they are doing a very budget job. If you are starting from scratch you want 3, up down and kitchen. But the important point is whether you normally use all the 30A at one time. If you had three, then quite possibly the only one running at anything aproaching its capacity would be kitchen.
You might check in an old house that any extra sockets have not been added as spurs from spurs. New sockets should be included in the ring wherever possible. Having spurs from spurs in the kitchen with lots of power hungry devices plugged in would be undesirable and at least theortetically dangerous.
It is NOT adding to any danger to replace the CU. (Make sure the work is actuallly done safely, of course)
It is perfectly feasible to add earth bonding of incoming services as a stand alone job, if this is not in place. Depending on where the gas/water supplies come in, it may be quite straightforward. Similarly, adding bathroom supplementary bonding may not be too difficult or require major upheaval.
These things can be done as separate jobs and ADD to safety. No one should say they are not worth doing alone.
My own reaction was to query what you said about the fuses, sausage. You counted them wrongly and (hopefully) missed out a blue. I hope you meant the last one shown (white) is for the lights, and the last missing one is the spare? I would be concerned to find that a blue spot 15A was running the lights.
As to lighting circuits with no earth. This is not the worst fault possible. It mostly causes a problem if you want metal fittings. If you use normal plastic insulated switches then it is not such a problem. Think twice before fitting metal chandeliers too.
The most important point is that cables are in good condition. The missing fuse shows spectacular damage from melted fusewire, but this is most likely cause by a dead short rather than overloading. (gives a bigger bang!) Presumably the cables are ok. If they are, then while they may be aging like all of us, PVC lasts well in normal use. No need to rip the house to pieces to replace it just for reasons of age.
Just one ring. When it was installed this would undoubtedly be standard. People have become more diverse since then in their needs, but most households can still run perfectly well on one power circuit. People are still wiring new houses that way. Though probably because they are doing a very budget job. If you are starting from scratch you want 3, up down and kitchen. But the important point is whether you normally use all the 30A at one time. If you had three, then quite possibly the only one running at anything aproaching its capacity would be kitchen.
You might check in an old house that any extra sockets have not been added as spurs from spurs. New sockets should be included in the ring wherever possible. Having spurs from spurs in the kitchen with lots of power hungry devices plugged in would be undesirable and at least theortetically dangerous.
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sorry guys, i was tired, the 4th one (blue) is the immersion heater, rarely used, then lights, then spare. 
all the cables i have come across, whether under floor, in loft or in walls are in good condition, all sockets i have checked (90% of all in house) are part of ring (well they do at least have cables coming and going so could be a radial cicuit i guess). at any one time i generally have the pc and assoc equipment running, a couple of lights on, the telly / sky / xbox and maybe the cooker and kettle at meal times. never had any flickering lights or spikey interference on monitors / telly / sound equipment.
before doing any work like this, i would definitely get my good friend warren (sparky) to check it all over thoroughly to advise what i need / don't need, most of the actual work i would do myself (apart from messing with the main cable and tails in the cupboard. it is not too hard a job currently to extend the earth connections throughout the house because i am halfway through decorating everything (at once) so can easily route cables to most places. all good fun.
all the cables i have come across, whether under floor, in loft or in walls are in good condition, all sockets i have checked (90% of all in house) are part of ring (well they do at least have cables coming and going so could be a radial cicuit i guess). at any one time i generally have the pc and assoc equipment running, a couple of lights on, the telly / sky / xbox and maybe the cooker and kettle at meal times. never had any flickering lights or spikey interference on monitors / telly / sound equipment.
before doing any work like this, i would definitely get my good friend warren (sparky) to check it all over thoroughly to advise what i need / don't need, most of the actual work i would do myself (apart from messing with the main cable and tails in the cupboard. it is not too hard a job currently to extend the earth connections throughout the house because i am halfway through decorating everything (at once) so can easily route cables to most places. all good fun.
Just bear in mind that if there is a spur off a spur, then the first spur will have two cables just as if it was on a ring. Any sockets with 3 cables suggest the start of a spur, but this might also come from a junction box somewhere.
No - you misunderstand - I meant it would be wrong to only do that as a way to fix the installation.Damocles said:
Maybe I overreacted, but here's what led up to what I said:
1) There's an old rewirable fusebox showing signs of damage.
2) There's a 3 bedroom house with just 1 ring, i.e. no provision for the sorts of power draws common in kitchens these days.
3) There's no RCD.
4) There's no earth on the lighting circuit, a practice which was discontinued in 1966.
5) There's no main or equipotential bonding.
All of this, IMHO, adds up to an installation "of a certain age". It may be fine, or it may not - it merits inspection. Even if the insulation on the cables looks fine, are they modern ones, or the old stranded types, which do not have the same capacity or voltage drop characteristics as today's? Is the cpc in the ring main cable the old 1mm² size?
Maybe "overhaul" was not the right word, but it does need a thorough investigation and it does need at least a partial rewire.
And then I read this:
and I was worried that all that he wanted to do was to put in a shiny new CU as part of a sprucing up and ignore all the hidden stuff.SausageEggRollWithKetchup said:
And that is what I consider potentially dangerous to the new owner, as it could effectively disguise the need for him to attend to the other matters, and therefore if done as a cosmetic exercise then yes, I stand by my verdict of dishonest.
Doing nothing would be a better option than fitting a modern CU and not attending to anything else.
ban-all-sheds said:
I tend to agree. I have encountered many customers referring to their new CU as a 'rewire' and as far as I can tell many electricians do CU changes as a way of making a quick buck - no inspection and test, no certificate, no updating of bonding. Yes, adding RCD protection is generally A Good Thing but leaving latent faults undiscovered is undoubtedly A Bad Thing.
Doing it to 'spruce up' before selling is potentially dishonest. A building surveyor with no electrical expertise (the majority) seeing a modern CU is quite likely to make no mention of the installation other than the standard clause to get expert advice on building services, which is generally ignored by purchasers. (I have actually seen a house with a new CU and all sockets and switches replaced on VIR cable and described as having been rewired!)
And, finally, as Dam has made clear, the existing installation, whilst not up to current regulations, is not necessarily dangerous.
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thanks for all the advice people, i have just been involved in a massive crash in my car (only rolled it 3 times) so have to rest up for a while, no electrical fiddling for me it would seem!!
Ouch! Get well soon!
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