Architect’s Outline Specification - how closely does this need to be followed?

[RonnyRaygun]

Never seen steel there.
It's a small structure, wouldn't wood do the same job and be a lot lighter and easier to fit?

The issue with timber would be creating the connection at the crank. It would need to be a cranked steel plate with lots of bolts through it and the timber. Could probably be done with a single piece of engineered wood but probably more expensive than steel. Plus the deflection and lateral displacement are more of a concern with timber. Short span so might be OK though, but the engineer has just provided the simplest solution (well, actually they haven't as the posts probably aren't needed...)

 

[catlad]

I'm not convinced you can make timber work there with that design and limited space.

 

[gmc600]

Thanks for all the replies, I won’t get the dynamite out just yet! I’ve paid about 83% of the total cost of £36,000 at the moment which I think is approximately equal to the work done so far. I guess this leaves a number of scenarios:

1.They don’t show up at all, which means I need to get someone else to finish the job.
2.They agree to build it correctly as per the contract and drawings at zero cost to me (as it’s their mistake) and £X cost to themselves. I didn’t think this was even a possibility until my architect said he thinks it could still be possible. He said mistakes like this are not that uncommon (either the builder ordered the wrong steel or it was wrongly fabricated). If anyone can give me a rough figure for £X that would help a lot to figure out the best way forward. I’m guessing it’s a significant sun of money!
3.They don’t agree to fix the problem, we then have to either agree on them finishing it an alternative way without the floor to ceiling windows and £Y compensation to me for the fact that I won’t be getting what I asked for in the first place.

So £Y needs to be less than £X or there’s no incentive for them to go with option 3. But if £Y is too high they might go with option 1! A reputable company wouldn’t do that to us but difficult to say how reputable they are. If they are not a reputable company £Y needs to be less than the remaining balance of 17% (£6200) or they are likely to just walk away.

It certainly seems like they realised their mistake early on but chose not to mention it! I just don’t understand their attitude, it’s like they think they can make any mistake no matter how bad and the customer will just have to accept it and still pay them the original price.

Apparently steel is required to meet some regulations (they didn’t tell me which ones) and as late as last year wasn’t a requirement. It is carrying a 5 metre long steel beam.

Obviously if they go for option 1 I’ll need to seek legal action.

 

[gmc600]

How much money have you given the builder so far? I wouldn't be giving them another penny until it's rectified. To be honest, infilling above the door with timber isn't a difficult job but how the steelwork ended up so far out (and why the builder didn't get it remade to the correct angle when they realised) beats me.

I see similar problems regularly, and they often stem from the builders deviating from the plans and making freestyle decisions that end up causing problems further down the line, but also the fact that the architects often only give minimal information on the drawings, meaning the builders have to come up with a lot of their own solutions.
The lack of fully dimensioned architect's drawings and details often stems from the client going with the lowest price, so usually no-one is blameless when issues such as these arise.

Interesting thing is that they put me in touch with the architect as they do a lot of work together (and the architect gave me a discount as part of this arrangement), but they then blamed the architect and the structural engineer when I asked them why the steel couldn’t be at the same angle as the roof like in the drawings. They said it’s impossible as the soffit then wouldn’t be at the same height as our existing bay window which is next to the sunroom. The architect of course disagrees with this statement.

 

[^woody^]

It's a double act. Dumber and Dumber. I wouldn't buy tickets for their shows.

 

[Swwils]

Why's that trickle vent so large

 

[gmc600]

Looking for some more advice on this as it seems they will actually be correcting the problem. What things should we be paying attention to as they do this?

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Make sure they fill that hole in.

 

[RonnyRaygun]

Looking for some more advice on this as it seems they will actually be correcting the problem. What things should we be paying attention to as they do this?

How are they going to correct it? What have they told you they will actually do?

 

[albaPhenom]

So many questions…

Were there any contracts drawn up prior to placing the order?

If so then they can’t walk away s as they’re in breach of contract, the mistake is theirs, whether it came as a result of the steel fabricator, window manufacturer or anyone else.

Both the Arch and Eng drawings show the design intent and I assume these are to scale or dimensioned.

The contractor simply hasn’t built to the drawings. It’s an expensive mistake to rectify but that’s their tough ****.

So who is employing the architect, you or them?

Also, is the contractor a Main Contractor employing subs or are is it a builder carrying out all the works themselves.

It’s terrible that this is even happening to you but you shouldn’t be footing any additional costs. They were employed to build to a set of drawings and an outline spec and they’ve failed to do this.

How big a company are they, is it possible that they’ll pull the plug on their Limited company if you take them to court to avoid paying to rectify this?

 

[gmc600]

How are they going to correct it? What have they told you they will actually do?

They plan to jack up the roof, replace with steel at correct angle and order a new window. The vertical beams will need to be extended with new steel welded on. Suggested roof would need to be redone. That’s all the detail I’ve been able to get at this stage.

 

[gmc600]

So many questions…

Were there any contracts drawn up prior to placing the order?

If so then they can’t walk away s as they’re in breach of contract, the mistake is theirs, whether it came as a result of the steel fabricator, window manufacturer or anyone else.

Both the Arch and Eng drawings show the design intent and I assume these are to scale or dimensioned.

The contractor simply hasn’t built to the drawings. It’s an expensive mistake to rectify but that’s their tough ****.

So who is employing the architect, you or them?

Also, is the contractor a Main Contractor employing subs or are is it a builder carrying out all the works themselves.

It’s terrible that this is even happening to you but you shouldn’t be footing any additional costs. They were employed to build to a set of drawings and an outline spec and they’ve failed to do this.

How big a company are they, is it possible that they’ll pull the plug on their Limited company if you take them to court to avoid paying to rectify this?

Thanks, similar to my own thought process on this. Yes a contract was agreed at the beginning and we specifically asked for a floor to ceiling window. I’m employing the architect as I think legally they can’t work for the builder (although the builder arranged this and has worked with the architect a lot of times). Not sure exactly how well they know each other.

They are doing all the work, except for a few things but I think everything related to this problem was done by them.

So they have offered to fix the problem but will be a long wait for this. They are a fairly big company, with almost 10 jobs ongoing at the moment and multiple garage conversions completed in my street a few years ago.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

They plan to jack up the roof, replace with steel at correct angle and order a new window. The vertical beams will need to be extended with new steel welded on. Suggested roof would need to be redone. That’s all the detail I’ve been able to get at this stage.

Is the right answer.

 

[nitro23456]

Why pay an architect for such a small off-the-shelf extension anyway? Waste of money.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Why pay an architect for such a small off-the-shelf extension anyway? Waste of money.

It doesn't really matter what their job title is, designer, technician, architect, the result should be the same if they are competent, they may not be an architect anyway, often the word architect is banded around as that's what laymen considers anyone who knocks up drawings to be titled. Anyway it's doubtful the 'architect' here had any more input than getting planning/regs approval and some working drawings, there wouldn't (or shouldn't) be any site supervision on a job like this. But the thread is a good example as to the need for good drawings when something like this occurs, that way the builder cannot shirk his responsibilities and claim it was never on a drawing.

I've resisted saying as much since the thread started but this extension is a bit of a fail architecturally anyway (sorry OP), the window/extension is too narrow for this type of window to work and look successful. The OP's aspirational photo works because it's much wider and the proportions work. A good designer should have steered the OP away from this design or the two vertical posts should have been employed more effectively to eat into those big masonry returns and make the window much wider.