Are argon filled windows worth the extra?

[ronniecabers]

Sounds like your windows were missing the ' bridging packers ' .....
Bear in mind as things heat up and cool down they expand and contract and different materials do so at different rates. Annoys me though the logic that 10-15 years is too short a period....how long does your car last ( with it's 3 year warranty ) before anything starts to fail?, how about your TV , washing machine? Not many things have a 10year warranty on them.
And as Crank39 says very little window glass goes in landfill, it is recycled one way or another....even crushed and used in Road Plannings

 

[crank39]

You can spend 250k on a brand new Ferrari and only get a 3 year warranty but buy I toilet window for £500 and expect to get a ten year warranty, worse than than you can buy just a replacement DG unit for an existing window and still get a 10 year warranty on the glass

 

[StephenStephen]

Hmmm, seeing as there are windows that have lasted hundreds of years, it seems a bit weird to compare it to a Ferrari...

 

[typonaut]

Sounds like your windows were missing the ' bridging packers ' .....
Bear in mind as things heat up and cool down they expand and contract and different materials do so at different rates. Annoys me though the logic that 10-15 years is too short a period....how long does your car last ( with it's 3 year warranty ) before anything starts to fail?, how about your TV , washing machine? Not many things have a 10year warranty on them.
And as Crank39 says very little window glass goes in landfill, it is recycled one way or another....even crushed and used in Road Plannings

Well, I have a car that's 49 years old, a washing machine that has a ten year warranty, writing this on a computer that is 17 years old, my TV is probably just over ten years old… I think you'll find that most new cars these days have 6 or 7 year warranties, and I believe I saw recently that some have 12 year anti-corrosion warranties.

The difference here is that all these things are servicable, and some are designed specifically to be serviced with particular parts – cars need tyres, oil, brake pads…

But a double-glazing unit just fails, and cannot be serviced. I expect that some might argue that the "servicable" part of the double-galzing system is the sealed unit.

However, having said that, I have had units last 20-25 years. I have a couple of units now that need replacing, and they are over 30 years old.

 

[crank39]

But when a car needs a service you change the oil filter, you don't repair it, you don't clean the oil and you hoover out the air filter, you don't re line the brake shoes or pads, you replace the serviceable parts. In a window the serviceable parts are the glass units, handles, hinges and locks, otherwise you have to replace the window

 

[ronniecabers]

Hmmm, seeing as there are windows that have lasted hundreds of years, it seems a bit weird to compare it to a Ferrari...

Yeah but those windows that have lasted 100 years are single glazed...not double glazed. And they will have needed some repair work at some point , even if it's just a coat of paint. And your Ferrari will be much more expensive and have less of a warranty

 

[ronniecabers]

@crank39 ... this post is highlighting half the issue with the window/door industry lol.. lots of misinformation and misunderstanding ( yes some of this information is not supplied by installers probably because they don't know either! ) and also the feeling that windows/doors MUST last forever lol.
Just for clarification the actual 10 year warranty thing is misleading to, All that has to be offered ( and this is only enforced by Competent Person Schemes such as Fensa/Certass/ Assure ) :

Minimum of manufacturer warranty on the frames ( usually 10 years ),
minimm of manufacturers warranty on the sealed unit ( usually 10 years but some are actually less )
Building regulation approval - 6 years
Fitting - 2 years
Handles/hinges/locks - 1 year

A lot of people assume it is 10 years on the whole installation and as an example insist an installer returns after 9 years to replace a broken handle or adjust a door , where some simple maintenance could have stopped this from happening

 

[typonaut]

But when a car needs a service you change the oil filter, you don't repair it, you don't clean the oil and you hoover out the air filter, you don't re line the brake shoes or pads, you replace the serviceable parts. In a window the serviceable parts are the glass units, handles, hinges and locks, otherwise you have to replace the window

Well, long ago it was the case that you would get brake shoes re-lined. Probably, with some ancient or unusual cars today you might have to do that. Oil filters are usually replaced because they may become blocked, I've never seen a damaged one – so it would be possible to clean. Oil is recycled, which is equivalent to cleaning, since it will be reused.

Either way, I already acknowleged that the sealed unit might be the servicable element. However, I think most people look at it and think “that’s the major component of the window”, and balk at that. It's like the service part of a car being the engine, where you have to replace that.

It's hard to rationalise that something is worn out, when all it does is just sit there doing nothing.

 

[ronniecabers]

But as I explained earlier... it doesn't ' sit there and do nothing ' . It's constantly contracting and expanding with changes in temperature and atmospheric pressure. The materials that go into making a sealed unit don't do this at the same rate , and , in my honest opinion ( this is just my opinion..NOT fact ) , this is the leading cause of sealed unit failure

 

[typonaut]

But as I explained earlier... it doesn't ' sit there and do nothing ' . It's constantly contracting and expanding with changes in temperature and atmospheric pressure. The materials that go into making a sealed unit don't do this at the same rate , and , in my honest opinion ( this is just my opinion..NOT fact ) , this is the leading cause of sealed unit failure

Sorry, all I am indicating is that from a homeowners point of view, the glass does sit there and do nothing. They also have the refernce of single glazing litterally sitting, doing nothing, for hundreds of years. So, from that perspective, having to replace sealed units is a bit of a shock to many people.

I think it is likely that the different rates of expansion (coefficient of expansivity) have an effect on the longevity of a sealed unit. Not least of which is the gas, which is subject to significant temperature changes and is obviously the most affected by those changes.

BTW, were older units vacuum sealed?

 

[ronniecabers]

No units in the past were air filled , and majority are to this day. There is one company I believe that makes them with a vacuum , and that is purely for ' heritage ' purposes.

And you can't really compare single glazing to a single unit lol... there is nothing to be effected bar one pane of glass in single glazing .. double ( and triple ) glazing , have the spacer bar, the dessicant , the primary sealant , the secondary sealant and the gas ( where supplied ). And I do get that people think it just sits there but that's where a bit of education comes in

 

[crank39]

When the homeowner thinks that all the glass does is sit there and do nothing so why has it blown is where I start to educate them, you may think it does nothing but in reality its putting up with rather a lot, it has to put up with huge temperature ranges sometimes on the same day, it expands and contracts at a different rate to the upvc or even aluminium its clamped into with gaskets, it has to put up with vibrations from front/back doors slamming in a draft, opening windows too get bashed about, as the unit gets older the hotmelt hardens from the sunlight and becomes less and less flexible and all it takes is one of the above and it can break the seal, this is without throwing in how well has it been fitted, are both panes supported by the packer, is the packer the right width for the unit, have bridge packers been used, are the drainage holes blocked, is the unit sitting in water, is any silicone holding the packers in touching the seal

 

[mattylad]

It's about time they redesigned them to keep their gasses in and last longer then

 

[crank39]

They thought they had. What does longer mean anyhow, how much more longer than longer is longer, I mean nothing lasts forever

 

[StephenStephen]

They thought they had. What does longer mean anyhow, how much more longer than longer is longer, I mean nothing lasts forever

Ah, entropy...