Are Condensing Boilers Any Good?

[boozercruiser]

Are Condensing Boilers Any Good?....I am not impressed up to now!..

In view of your very valuable opinion I dug out my previous Engineer reports which you might find amusing and/or others might find of interest. (except one).

Boiler installed by R.T. Downs, which is a business in Mold on 25th July 2008.

Following call outs to Worcester because the boiler is down......

6th October 2008. "PCB FUSE BLOWS C/H EXTERNAL WIRED FROST SAT WIRED INCORRECTLY. BOTH NEUTRAL AND EARTH LIVE ON DEMAND.
COLD WEATHER. REMOVED CABLE FROM FUSED SPAR. MUST BE WIRED ONTO PCB FROST TERMINAL IN BOILER.

I had to get R.T. Downs back to fix that.

26th May 2009. " NOZZLE HOLDER SPLIT. CAUSED APPLIANCE TO SOOT UP. CLEANED OUT APPLIANCE AND ORDERED A NEW NOZZLE HOLDER FOR TOMORROW. NB. WILO PUMP FITTED TO BOILER 60/80EH NOZZLE FITTED, REPLACED WITH CORRECT NOZZLE 55/80EH. COULD NOT COMPLETE MEASUREMENTS AS PART REQUIRED".

27th May 2009. "RECALL TO FIT NOZZLE HOLDER. HOLDER SPLIT AT NOZZLE BASE, OVERTIGHTENED, REPLACED ITEM, NOZZLE DAMAGED. REPLACED ITEM.PECELL DAMAGED, REPLACED ITEM.NB. CONDENSATE TRAP NOT FITTED TO SYSTEM. PIPED DIRECTLY TO OUTSIDE DRAIN. ELECTRIC CABLE FROM THERMOSTAT TOO SHORT. SHOULD BE HEAT RESISTANT. WILO PUMP FITTED TO APPLIANCE".

7th January 2009 "CUSTOMER REPORTED NO CH/DHW, NO OIL GETTING TO BOILER, BOILER HAS STRONG SPARK SO CHANGED CONTROL BOX AND SOLENOID AS A PRECAUTIONARY MEASURE, CHECKED OIL NOT GETTING TO BOILER DUE TO FREEZING TEMPS. UNABLE TO TAKE READINGS AS BOILER IS NOT WORKING"

8th January 2009. "THE OIL LINE WAS BLOCKED, UNBLOCKED TO BOILER OK ON THE HT/HW.

And on top of that of course is as per my post of last weeks Engineers reports.

It has to be said though that quite a lot of the problems in respect of my 18/25 have been caused either by the original installation or the call out guys.

Like I said...I do worry about the long term situation with my boiler.

When I had it installed I thought...oooohhhh lovely a brand new Worcester Condensing Boiler........no worries now.

How wrong I have been

P.S. I note that one Engineer commented that a WILO pump is installed in the boiler. Can anyone verify if this is the correct pump for this particular boiler? And if it is not...does it matter?

Saturday 29th January 2011
So then, I received the Engineers reports from Worcester this morning. Perhaps you guys can make more sense of it than me?

Friday 21st January. Replaced parts (7-716-100-098) job type CT01-BDWN.

1. Coil solenoid valve
1. Control box satronic
1. Photocell and flange

Replaced the parts above but the oil pump was stuck to the burner and unabel to replce it booked back in with a new burner.

Labour Charge £0.00P

Saturday 22nd January 2011.

1. Burner Sterling 50

Replaced the burner as oil pump was stuck to it. The line was frozen advised customer to get there installer to fix it.

Labour Charge £0.00P

(All above exactly as written....including spelling).

So, after my complaining with the help of knowledge gained here and another 4 days of cold another Engineer came out on...

Tuesday 25ththanuary 2011.....his report.....:-

Air being drawn into line from poor fittings. Repaired and Comp tests.
Gross Efficiency 92.0

Labour Charge £0.00P....................................END OF REPORTS

All the last Engineer said to me was that there had been air in the line.....he didn't say anything to me about poor fittings.
Perhaps he should have advised me what he meant by that so I could react and get them replaced.

So then....like I say, THREE Engineer visits.....the parts above replaced, including a burner (Well, he was bashing seven kinds of poo out of the other one with a hammer!)

...what a right fiasco from the first engineer which left us without hot water or heating for around 5 days just because of air in the oil line.

If I was that first Engineers Boss.... I don't think I would be a happy chappie!

What I cannot figure out is that he put a brand new burner on....and didn't have any oil to test it with? It makes me want to weep.

But me....I know nothing.

One thing I am sure of....Thank goodness I have a 5 year Guarantee...otherwise I reckon I would be in a right old battle with Worcester over the cotsing of the whole fiasco being charged to me.

In reply to that last set of problems......

1st February 2011

Dear ...........,

Thank you for your correspondence, please allow me to share with you what I have investigated so far.

Our engineer Robert found after investigation there was an issue with the fuel pump and during the replacement process he found the pump was completely seized to the burner. Whilst trying to remove this item some damage was caused to the casting of the whole burner which would have been unable to be repaired. Thus the new burner was ordered and a re visit was booked in for the following day. Having read your original communication I can understand your frustration, but having investigated this I can understand why his actions were so, there was no option but to order the full unit at our cost.

Our engineers only work on our appliances and anything outside these parameters, are not our responsibility. I can understand your points regarding this issue but that is our working practice. Our engineers carry out basic checks on oil supplies and if possible may be able to re establish a supply. In your individual case this was not possible. Robert was able to get some fuel into the Tiger Loop but this was not replenished by the supply pipe which itself indicated a supply issue and not as you mention a boiler issue. If you have had an independent OFTEC engineer rectify your supply I would welcome his findings and if necessary take actions based on his findings.

Finally to address your question regarding the timer on this appliance I can assure you the appliance and timer are operating correctly. This function is so as to react to a hot water demand as the appliance is a combi type boiler it needs to heat the water contained within the shell to a reasonable temperature to supply you with hot water on demand.

I apologise for any inconvenience caused with regard to this matter and hope this addresses the issues you have raised.

Yours Sincerely

Craig Hodson
Area Service Manager
BOSCH Thermotechnology Ltd
Cotswold Way
Warndon
Worcester
WR4 9SW
www.bosch-thermotechnology.co.uk
[email protected] (for service related complaints/enquiries)
[email protected] (to request an engineer)
Tel: 0844 892 3000 (contact centre)

 

[ALEC1]

Yes... quality boilers will last if installed as the design engineers intended that is to comply with German building regulations (if its a German boiler!) which require an outdoor sensor and weather compensation control.

Almost all condensing boilers now come with this technology so people should take advantage of it...

I have seen a 7 year old condensing boiler as good as new because it was just ticking over in weather compensation mode...

I dont doubt as an installer that constantly switching things on and off compromise both boiler life and fuel efficiency...certainly my experience supports this...

 

[boozercruiser]

Hello again,
I have not yet heard back from the Area Service Manager in respect of my further comments. In the meantime could someone please help me with information in respect of the supply of Hot Water from my Worcester condencing Boiler.

As previously mentioned, so long as my boiler is calling for Heat then it automaticaly calls for Hot Water, even if the Hot Water is set to OFF with the on board programmer.

Is this just the way EVERY condensing boiler is designed to work, or is this action just designed into Worcesters Boilers alone?

 

[boozercruiser]

Craig Hodgson
Worcester Service Manager
7th February 2011

Dear Sir,
Thank you for your E. Mail which my Wife and I where very pleased to receive. However with respect I would wish to put a point of view which is at odds to yours. From what you say on Roberts first visit ......

"Robert found after investigation there was an issue with the fuel pump and during the replacement process he found the pump was completely seized to the burner. Whilst trying to remove this item some damage was caused to the casting of the whole burner which would have been unable to be repaired. Thus the new burner was ordered and a re visit was booked in for the following day."


So on that premise the Boiler had originally broke down because of the fuel pump which meant that the Boiler was not working at all as the 'Lock Out' button showed. With around minus 8 freezing temperatures outside and no movement from the boiler calling for oil it seems to me very possible that this was a contributory factor in some possible freezing in the oil line and then, as the next Engineer Colin advised me that there had possibly been air in the line.

So all of my troubles this time could POSSIBLY have been caused by the boiler .....and Robert toodled off leaving my wife and I to tough it out for a few days in freezing temperatures and only saved when you thankfully sent Colin out, who obviously knew what he was doing, and he thankfully corrected the problem in the oil line.

Robert could just as easily have done that for us....and should have in my humble opinion. Anything, yes anything rather than just leave us like that with freezing temperatures in the middle of Winter. I felt pig sick as I watched him drive away from our property that day.

Regarding my complaint that my Worcester boiler is supplying hot water all of the time if I am calling for heat even if I do not want it. A poster on the respected DIY NOT Forum explained the situation very well......

"Your boiler is a heatslave that stores 10/15 gallons of hot water,principally the diverter directs water into slave tank,once temp satisfied it diverts it to heating system.

If system is cold then hot water takes priority, that's the way they are designed."

To my way of thinking that is a design fault which to me is very wasteful in both energy and cost. So we have to pay for heating 10 to 15 gallons of water and then keep it hot all day just because the Heating is on...even though I have the Worcester Digital Plug-In Twin Channel 7 Day Programmer fitted which has an OFF setting.... even if we do not want it? This isn't exactly helping to keep CO2 emissions down and saving the Planet now is it?

That's if one believes in that rubbish of course!........ Me? .....it's the waste in high priced oil which we are more concerned about.

To be very honest with you as per my below detailed past Worcester Engineer reports you can see that one way and another we have had nothing but problems with our 18/25 boiler. To my mind this has been a combination of poor original installation, one particularly poor engineer (not Worcesters) sent out by Warmsure, and possibly poor design as per the newspaper article I have included below.

In spite of my 'moans' brought about by many cold and frustrating times since we had the 18/25 boiler installed I can say that your customer service has been very good indeed. When calling for service every person I have spoken to on the telephone has been very helpful and an Engineer has come out pretty fast, and almost every one of them seemed to know what they where doing and cared about the job in hand.
Your good self is included in my praise.

However, if Robert had not gone off and left us without heat or hot water then I would not have gone off and done the following posts to try and get some help....

//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=259754&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=260840&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1885303#1885303