Are pull cords no longer allowed in Bathrooms due to regs

[JohnW2]

Its often said on this forum that you cannot re-sleeve the green/yellow core of a flex as brown and use as a live conductor...now I'm not going to argue against the fact that its as rough as a bears backside and I wouldn't accept it on a job I was signing off.... but would anyone like to try and give me a reg number that actually forbids it in the 17th edition? (be carfull to read it properly, theres one that looks like it does if you read it quickly but on further reading doesn't actually relate to cores within multicore cables)

We've been over this one in the past. As you say, the second paragraph of 514.4.2 (in both BRB & BGB), which forbids oversleeving of G/Y, applies only to singles. However, the first paragraph says that the G/Y colour combination 'shall be used exclusively for the identification of a protective conductor and shall not be used for any purpose'. The issue therefore is what they mean by 'identification'. Most of 514 implies that sleeving at the terminations is an acceptable method of 'identification', and that the sleeving supersedes the colour of the insulation it covers; indeed, 514.3.2 says that every core shall be identifiable at its terminations and preferably throughout its length. On that basis, I agree with you (as I've argued in the past) that oversleeving of G/Y cores of multicore cables probably is 'compliant', even though many seem to disagree, and even though most of us agree that it is 'not very nice'.

The usual argument against this practice which is brought up (relating to perceived 'safety' issues, rather than the regs) relates to the pretty/very unlikely scenario of someone cutting into the middle of such a cable and then assuming that the G/Y they find is a CPC.

Kind Regards, John.

 

[Paul_C]

re-sleeve the green/yellow core of a flex as brown and use as a live conductor.

It was actually specified by the Wiring Regs. at one time.

14th edition:

Phase R of a 3-phase a.c. circuit - Red

Phase Y of a 3-phase a.c. circuit - White (or, in a 3-core flexible cable, black with a white sleeve at the terminations)

Phase B of a 3-phase a.c. circuit - Blue (or, in a 3-core flexible cable, green with a blue sleeve at the terminations)

And similarly:

Positive of a 3-wire d.c. circuit - Red

Middle wire of a 3-wire d.c. circuit - Black (or, in a 4-core flexible cable, white with a black sleeve at the terminations)

Negative of a 3-wire d.c. circuit - Blue (or, in a 3-core flexible cable, green with a blue sleeve at the terminations)

 

[roberta1000]

you cannot re-sleeve the green/yellow core of a flex as brown and use as a live conductor.

Absolutely nothing wrong with that and there are'nt any regs forbidding it. Its only single core y/g cables that that can only be used as earth conductors.

Don't see a problem with this (the flex, not the single) and I've done it from time to time when I needed a live return but no cpc. I don't even think it's especially 'rough'. Common sense isn't forbidden in electrics.

 

[Paul_C]

Probably a common use in a domestic setting would be a 3-core flex connecting to a (double-insulated) cylinder thermostat from an outlet plate on the wall. It should be blatantly obvious to anyone opening up either end and looking at the connections that the sleeved green/yellow is not being used as an earth.

 

[JohnW2]

Probably a common use in a domestic setting would be a 3-core flex connecting to a (double-insulated) cylinder thermostat from an outlet plate on the wall. It should be blatantly obvious to anyone opening up either end and looking at the connections that the sleeved green/yellow is not being used as an earth.

Indeed - and also cables to (double insulated) PIRs. I 'confess' that I've done that in my time.

One of the criticisms of this, of course, is that, even if a CPC is not needed at 'the far end', the absence of a CPC in the cable itself means that an RCD (if there is one) would not trip if the cable were damaged/cut, whereas it probably would if a CPC were present.

Kind Regards, John.

 

[Paul_C]

One of the criticisms of this, of course, is that, even if a CPC is not needed at 'the far end', the absence of a CPC in the cable itself means that an RCD (if there is one) would not trip if the cable were damaged/cut, whereas it probably would if a CPC were present.

No different for a 2-core appliance flex without earth, and there don't seem to be any concerns about that.

 

[JohnW2]

No different for a 2-core appliance flex without earth, and there don't seem to be any concerns about that.

Certainly no different, but we have seen people expressing concern about it, particularly in relation to electric garden tools. It's difficult to argue against it being a good idea for an RCD to (probably) operate when one cuts through the cable, even if it's a Class II tool.

Kind Regards, John.