B&M, Wilko, Lloyds Pharm, Budgens, Iceland, Boots, House of Fraser, B&Q, Iceland, Paperchase

[conny]

Major retailers in towns/cities don't help themselves to garner trade.
Half the time the staff don't have time for a customer unless he/she is wanting to buy something off the shelf that won't take up too much of their time. Which leads to the second problem. Go into a major retailer like Currys, Dunelm Mills or such like to buy something you have seen/researched on their website and ask if you can have one. The usual answer we get is, "Oh, we don't carry that as a stock item. You have to order it online and can have it sent to you direct, (for an astronomical 'delivery' fee which they don't mention), or you can have it delivered here, (again for an unmentioned delivery fee), and collect it from us."
Me. "But you have one on show just over there. So surely you have some in stock?"
Them. "Thats just for display purposes sir."
Me. "So you don't actually stock something you are openly displaying? I believe you are not allowed to do that as it is classed as misrepresentation."
Them. "Oh, I only work here part time. You will have to speak to head office about that." (Or some other attempt to get away from you).

They are driving potential customers to stop going in their stores and into the arms of places like Amazon or eBay, at the cost of their own jobs, and they can't see it.

 

[chirpychippy]

Another nail in the coffin for The High Street was.....Lockdown. The ridiculous demand for Vans drove the market value of second hand vans through the roof and what were these vans being used for, courier services, for on line orders.

I appreciate we had little alternative at this point but to shop on line, but I think it helped the demise of the high street.

I used to go to builders merchants nearly everyday for timber, screwfix for this and that, Toolstation etc. I order my timber on line now, delivery is free, etc etc.

 

[diy_fun_uk]

Let's be honest, it's hard to argue against the convenience of online shopping. Not only can you find stuff you might struggle to 'on the high street' but you get it delivered to your door next day or shortly after, maybe even same day if you pay more ... which I don't

It's the same with retail parks, all those shops in one area, free parking. Beats the high street hands down, hence why it became a successful model. And why supermarkets dominated over smaller stores, although we see that changing a bit these days.

It's arguing for a bygone era in many of these cases.

 

[Deleted member 18243]

Different perspective - Parking

One thing that ****es me off is if I go to one shop, and park up, rather than waste fuel, pollute atmosphere or whatever, I can’t nip to a neighbouring shop because of parking t’s and c’s so another business loses my custom.

Parking charges hurt a lot of our local shops as well as our high street.

I'm with you all the way about greedy councils. I think that a lot of what local councils do is unnecessary and that the majority of their spending is waste. BUT I have to ask - why does everything have to revolve around parking? Assuming you are not disabled, can't you just park somewhere a bit out of town for free and walk to the shops? Or even take public transport - although I know this is not available in all locations.

It's the same with retail parks, all those shops in one area, free parking.

I HATE retail parks! The word soulless could have been invented for them. They are nothing but huge car parks with a few of the same, crappy shops around the edges. You cannot beat the charm of an old town centre - strolling around the shops, the pubs, the cafes, the market square, the bus and railway stations, meeting people and seeing all of life. It's not just about shopping. Certain towns lend themselves to this. Lincoln is a great example and Chester another. Artificially created towns that include brutalist concrete architecture are the ones that are dying because they are charmless.

The retail park, whilst having more efficient buildings than their 1960s counterparts, takes this charmlessness even further. It's a complete reduction of the human experience.

 

[Justin Passing]

Major retailers in towns/cities don't help themselves to garner trade.
Half the time the staff don't have time for a customer unless he/she is wanting to buy something off the shelf that won't take up too much of their time. Which leads to the second problem. Go into a major retailer like Currys, Dunelm Mills or such like to buy something you have seen/researched on their website and ask if you can have one. The usual answer we get is, "Oh, we don't carry that as a stock item. You have to order it online and can have it sent to you direct, (for an astronomical 'delivery' fee which they don't mention), or you can have it delivered here, (again for an unmentioned delivery fee), and collect it from us."
Me. "But you have one on show just over there. So surely you have some in stock?"
Them. "Thats just for display purposes sir."
Me. "So you don't actually stock something you are openly displaying? I believe you are not allowed to do that as it is classed as misrepresentation."
Them. "Oh, I only work here part time. You will have to speak to head office about that." (Or some other attempt to get away from you).

They are driving potential customers to stop going in their stores and into the arms of places like Amazon or eBay, at the cost of their own jobs, and they can't see it.

+1.
They spend their time explaining to you which is valuable to you and expensive for them, but they don't have a means to charge you for that.
They don't stock it, and don't like it when you say you can get it quicker and cheaper online, outside of their "price match" terms. And if it's the same price everywhere you can often order it from John Lewis and get a longer guarantee.

The last laser printer I bought, was £30 more expensive and they (Currys) couldn't show me a print. And they didn't have one in stock.

I care little for charm or bygone eras for a bit of tech, but I wonder how long they expect their shop to be open.

 

[Deleted member 18243]

I care little for charm

And neither do you have much of it.

 

[securespark]

I blame, in part, greedy councils.

Our Council makes a fortune from parking and fines. It's immoral. Of course, they insist their signage is adequate, but it really isn't. There's not enough warning and not enough signs and the one sign there is is partially concealed behind a traffic light pod.

Commuters 'taken to the cleaners' as council rakes in nearly £600,000 in fines

Cameras began operating in late February and - after nearly six weeks of warning notices - anyone driving a non-exempt vehicle in the lane will be hit with a £60 penalty charge notice (PCN), reduced to £30 if paid within two weeks.

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk

Manchester Council have done the same. Very little notice of a no left turn during certain hours as it is bus only.

Here's a couple of stories about other bus gates on the same road further out of the city centre.

Driver's appeal against Oxford Road bus lane fine 'may have wider implications'

A watchdog adjudicator made a site visit and said signage is 'inadequate'

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk

https://www.itv.com/news/granada/2018-08-21/almost-a-thousand-drivers-caught-out-on-manchesters-oxford-road-bus-lanes-everyday-costing-motorists-and-estimated-10m

The sneaky Council have refused to reveal how much they have raked in for these bus gate fines.

There's transparency for you.....

 

[securespark]

I went to 6 shops in my town centre for a resin watch strap.

No one had any. They all said have you tried Amazon?

 

[JP_]

Look over there!

A refugee!

They must have caused it!

 

[JP_]

It is not essential to life that shops open and expand ad infinitum.

Usually they get replaced. More and more high streets are now just boarded up. This is not progress.

 

[diy_fun_uk]

I HATE retail parks! The word soulless could have been invented for them. They are nothing but huge car parks with a few of the same, crappy shops around the edges. You cannot beat the charm of an old town centre - strolling around the shops, the pubs, the cafes, the market square, the bus and railway stations, meeting people and seeing all of life. It's not just about shopping. Certain towns lend themselves to this. Lincoln is a great example and Chester another. Artificially created towns that include brutalist concrete architecture are the ones that are dying because they are charmless.

The retail park, whilst having more efficient buildings than their 1960s counterparts, takes this charmlessness even further. It's a complete reduction of the human experience.

It all comes down to what the consumer wants from their shopping experience. What you're describing isn't necessarily what the majority of consumers want (or have time for) present day. Of course, some people like to take a slow meander around smaller (perhaps independent) retailers, take in the charm as you call it, maybe pick up two or three things, head to the pub, a generally relaxed experience. I'd assert to an extent this is rose tinted glasses, the shopping experience for many (even pre retail park) didn't and doesn't resemble this, unless that type of experience was something deliberately sought. For example I had an uncle and aunt who enjoyed nothing more than 'going for a look around the shops' and going for a coffee, probably not buying much as they did it on a regular basis. A 'look' doesn't help retailers, they need people to buy.

The retail park in my home town has quite a wide variety of retailers, yes they're all national chains but so what. And in terms of shop size, I'd sooner for example have a large Currys store to browse in with a lot more products on display than the Currys we used to have on the high street.

If the government and local councils announced a strategy whereby all consumer retail parks would close over the next decade, with retailers instructed to repopulate high streets, I suspect most consumers wouldn't be happy about that. Especially if it was coupled with a transport strategy that meant you had to take public transport to get to the high street.

I think some councils have reimagined the old high street and surrounding space e.g. by introducing residential living and recreational spaces, with some smaller local independent retailers.

 

[securespark]

In Stockport, the council recently bought the town shopping precinct (completed 1965) for £1. Many shops had moved out from the central shopping area in recent years. M&S, BHS, Sainsbury's, Argos. Some of these have reopened as council facilities, others as workspace. The council plan to build a multi-function library in part of the shopping precinct, while the disused Debenhams (built c.1980 next to the precinct) is planned to be demolished and a new NHS hospital built in its place. Sainsbury's in central Stockport will be demolished and replaced with housing.

On the other side of the A6, the bus station and nearby railway land is being or has been redeveloped with a mixture of retail, commercial and housing and hotels.

Just before the war, the river in the town centre had a road built over it.

There was great excitement WRT town planning in Stockport after the war. There were plans to sweep away the road and uncover the river once more and build facilities such as courts, libraries and clinics on its banks, but this never came to pass.

It's funny how attitudes to old buildings change. At the front of the precinct was a lovely old brick-built Victorian fire station which was flattened to build the typical 60s concrete monstrosity. These days, the facade at least would be retained as a frontage to the shopping centre.

The other funny thing is looking at old maps showing the A6 as a bypass and its name as New Road. On either side of the A6 were fields!

The original main road through the town before that was Hillgate.

 

[Justin Passing]

And neither do you have much of it.

To you, good. And nor do I suffer fools gladly, Andy11.
I can show as much charm as is appropriate.

 

[Justin Passing]

Parking's a biggie. My council made short term on-street parking available cheap, then free, which small shops said made a huge difference. Were it not for Waitrose free carparks I'd use the local centres far less. £3 extra on the price of a tenner is an off-putter. The biggest centre has an underground municipal biggie, which is often nearly empty. Some find the entrance and exit, which are both tight concrete-clad twisty things, alarming, and when you get there the machines rarely work. You have to phone, to pay. Great, but you're under ground!
Last time I went I had to surface to downlod their app, which wouldn't take the credit card etc.
Supermarkets are now offering a quick delivery of one bag for under £3. Wifey used it for computer paper, which was delivered in 40 minutes.

 

[AkiraDIY]

It comes down to the individual and how they want to participate with such strategies. For example I don't live in a city, I live in an average sized town. If I want to drive to the town centre from my house, park up and walk into the shopping centre, door to door would take me 10 mins tops, with all the advantages of taking my car that we've discussed in other threads.

If my town implemented a clean air zone that essentially meant I couldn't do the above, I simply wouldn't bother going into the town centre. So they'd lose my trade. However that's only me, perhaps the majority in my town who use cars would be happy to stop and start using public transport or walk.

The point is that the strategies are implemented to appear green and environmentally friendly for re-election, not actually to benefit people. They make it so you cannot drive into the city but cut public transport services at the same time.

In Glasgow, if you stay anywhere other than the posh West End with the subway, there's no convenient way to get into the city centre, it's a proper mission. Trains and bus services are cut, virtually half the time the scheduled bus doesn't turn up, train tickets are expensive, infrequent, and on strike more than they're on time. Is it even a question why people don't bother going into the city centre any more?

The council have spent literally billions on cycle lanes that don't really go anywhere, just stuck on main roads and then ends, spitting cyclists back into traffic. Not that it matters since Glasgow is quite hilly and the weather is awful 8 months of the year, so hardly anyone uses them anyway.

Different perspective - Parking - you can't go to any town, well any town where I live and park for free, if it's not permit parking everywhere, it's pay to park.

Canterbury for example, is £3.60 an hour to park close to the town center and becomes slightly less costly depending on how far you wish to walk.

I blame, in part, greedy councils.

Parking in cities are rarely free but a couple hours in a NCP (Buchanan Galleries, £5 for 3 hours, £4 all day Sunday) plus fuel on the weekend is still cheaper than a train or bus ticket, especially if there's more than one in the car. (£5.20 return, and £5.00 return respectively). Not to mention a bus takes 45 minutes after it finally shows up, while driving takes 15.