Bathroom electric socket

[BS3036]

There is one other possible approach. I know of someone who did this. You have to do this via notification to the LABC, as the normal electrician schemes don't allow it. You find an electrician who is experienced in installing in Germany, and (after agreeing it with LABC), do the entire bathroom installation to VDE100. As this is a european standard there is no good reason for LABC to refuse, (though if they do it's more trouble than its worth to argue).

Anyway, then you can fit a number of schuko sockets in your bathroom perfectly legally. You'd need a few german plugs to go in the sockets, but you can pick them up in any Baumarkt, next time you're in Germany.

¿Que?

I'm not sure which bit you didn't understand.

As you have so often said yourself, Part P says (roughly):

A way of satisfying the fundermental principles would be to follow:
a. ....BS7671....or an equivalent standard approved by a member of the EEA...

All the person in question did was to exactly that by wiring his bathroom to VDE100. It helped that he was qualified to do installation in Germany and had a full set of VDE100 books. He submitted certification in german, which was accepted by the BCO, who declined an english translation.

So he has a set of legal sockets in his bathroom (rcd protected) to make his german visitors feel at home.

As another point of fact, the typical german bathroom has 2 or 3 mains sockets arranged conveniently round the basin. I am not aware of a higher death rate in german bathrooms.

Clearly the average DIYer should not attempt this. The circumstances where this was possible were very specialised, and not likely to apply to most people.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I'm not sure which bit you didn't understand.

The bit where you appear to be saying that he'll have to work to German standards and notify as the normal electrician schemes don't allow the fitting of sockets in bathrooms...

 

[BS3036]

No you read that into my post yourself. I meant that the uk schemes will insist that their members work to BS7671 whatever Part P says.

 

[FingRinal]

My concern with this is the mixing and matching of different (national) standards. Either the whole installation conforms to one standard or the other (and that standard should satisy the requirements for a supply to the property).

The other problem is maintenance. How likely is it that the bathroom installation can be maintained in accordance with the German requirements when it might be impossible to obtain the necessary expertise? This would in turn forfeit the compliance with BS7671 for the installation as a whole and the standard no doubt accepted for the purpose of providing a supply.

I would want more assurance than some pieces of paper in German. I would expect to see a Design submitted by someone with appropriate credentials - defined credentials and not someone 'arguing' that they are competent. A Design which specifies the integration with BS7671, the maintenance requirements and how that affects the rest of the installation and a detailed schematic.

It might well bamboozle an LABC who in turn might let it go. More fool them.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

No you read that into my post yourself. I meant that the uk schemes will insist that their members work to BS7671 whatever Part P says.

And I meant that BS 7671 now allows sockets in bathrooms...

I wonder if we have a stick here with 2 wrong ends.....

 

[ban-all-sheds]

My concern with this is the mixing and matching of different (national) standards. Either the whole installation conforms to one standard or the other (and that standard should satisy the requirements for a supply to the property).

Mix'n'match is not the best idea.

Perhaps the sooner we have a harmonised EU standard the better - the USA seems to manage with a single code for a population of a similar size and a country about twice the size...

The other problem is maintenance. How likely is it that the bathroom installation can be maintained in accordance with the German requirements when it might be impossible to obtain the necessary expertise?

About as likely as most people doing "maintenance" can remain in accordance with BS 7671...

This would in turn forfeit the compliance with BS7671 for the installation as a whole and the standard no doubt accepted for the purpose of providing a supply.

You're right, AFAIK, that for the purposes of supply the installation has to conform to a standard...

 

[BS3036]

And I meant that BS 7671 now allows sockets in bathrooms...

Fair enough.

I just have a thing that when I think of a bathroom, I don't think of a room around 4m long, with a bath or shower at one end, and a socket at the other.

Most bathrooms I come across wouldn't be allowed a socket under BS7671.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I thought one of the aims behind the 17th was to make progress towards European harmonisation, and that that was one of the reasons for the changing of the special location zones?

Does VDE100 permit sockets closer than BS 7671?

 

[BS3036]

Does VDE100 permit sockets closer than BS 7671?

My understanding is that they have to be outside zones (and rcd protected). So yes.

 

[FingRinal]

You're right, AFAIK, that for the purposes of supply the installation has to conform to a standard...

A standard which the supplier will either accept or not. I would like to think it would be an issue decided solely by a qualified engineer rather than the in-house or contracted-out legal team. But we don't live in the CIS.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I imagine it's decided by a clerk looking at the installation certificate. Which it will have if it was installed to a standard.

 

[FingRinal]

I suspect that when the clerk receives some paperwork in a foreign language, they won't make a decision at all - but escalate the matter and place it in the inexorable machinations of the internal email merry-go-round. Which is when all manner of people will dip their fingers in it before passing it up to 'legal' for the final say.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Which is when all the practice of getting it through LABC will come in handy...

 

[conny]

BAS & RF appear to be in agreement!

Oh I am definitely going to win the lottery tonight!

 

[RF Lighting]

Did you mean BAS & FR?

BAS & RF rarely disagree, except on how to implement high integrity earthing, but lets not bring that up again