Bathroom Extractor Fans - Regulation clarification

[SimonH2]

it tells the electrician he must comply with the BS

It says no such thing, it does not explicitly state it, and it does not implicitly state it.

The government guidance documents goes on to say that ONE WAY to comply is to work to the BS - but it a) isn't the law, it's only guidance, and b) it does not state that this is the only way. If you can deviate from the BS and still show that reasonable measures have been taken blah blah then you can do that - comply with the law without complying with the BS.

So quit with the personal insults.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Frankly who gives a damn where it says it, Part P, the BS, the wiring regs, its gonna have to be done though isn't it? Whether retrospectively fitted or into a new build an isolator is gonna be the simplest way to do it and achieves what the OP wanted to do in the first place.

 

[SimonH2]

Possibly - but a lot depends on what the MI for the equipment says and how the person doing the work wants to comply with Part P.
But, life would be a lot simpler if people didn't keep spouting incorrect rubbish about what Part P requires. The guidance notes, and rules imposed by approved schemes on their members members, are not the law.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Whatever, if its being done by the book it will very likely need one, not just a possibility is it? Prey tell how the OP can isolate his fan without an isolation switch?

 

[SimonH2]

But there is nothing in Part P or the wiring regs that mandates it. The MIs most likely specify it, but nothing else does.
How do you isolate a light fitting before working on it ?

If you're going to be pedantic then a normal fan isolator switch isn't acceptable as there's no way to secure it in the off position (at least, not on any domestic fan isolator I've seen). Thus leaving the only acceptable method being the same as for the lights - turn off the breaker at the CU and lock it off.
Thus it would be quite reasonable to make a design decision that the means of isolation is to lock off the MCB supplying the circuit. Compliant with Part P, and I believe compliant with the wiring regs*. Whether that's a reasonable design decision may well depend on how many circuits there are in the installation, how they are split, and whether this is the only bathroom in the house.

* Using a rule somewhere that I think says that it's allowable to deviate from the regs where there's a good design reason to do so. No I can't quote a rule number, I'm not that familiar with the details.

So once again, there is nothing in Part P that mandates a fan isolator - and you were wrong to state otherwise. It may well be good practice to install one, but that is not the same thing as being legally required.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

* Using a rule somewhere

Oh my, I bow to your superior knowledge!

 

[luisdesign]

the passage you're referring to is:
"Approved Documents are intended to provide guidance for some of the common building situations. However, there may well be alternative ways of achieving compliance with the requirements."

Then, in nice big bold letters we are told:
"Thus there is no obligation to adopt any particular solution contained in an Approved Document if you prefer to meet the relevant requirement in some other way".

This is present in ALL of the approved documents. To the OP, it is well worth remembering that the Approved Documents are NOT requirements, simply guidance. If you follow the guidance though, then you cannot be held liable or responsible... if you deviate from the guidance and something goes wrong you may find yourself in a tricky situation.

In this case there is only a single requirement for electrical safety:

"P1. Reasonable provision shall be made in the design and installation of electrical installations in order to protect persons operating, maintaining or altering the installations from fire or injury".


Part P does set out that there are essentially two ways of meeting the principles of the regulation:
1. Following BS 7671:2001
2. Following an alternative standard as approved by the EEA
3. Following guidance from installation manuals (in line with BS 7671:2001)


My advice to the OP:

When you get your fan, look at the installation guidance. Do what that says. That way you should be covered under the P1 requirement, be in accordance with Part P AND be covered by the fan manufacturers warranty.

@freddymurcerystwin: I think there is a dire need for a "sarcasm" font... we could stick the button for it right in between the i and the u!

 

[Nige F]

, another halfwit!

But the 2 of them make a fullwit

 

[onecog]

How many dimwits in a fullwit

 

[jabuzzard]

If you're going to be pedantic then a normal fan isolator switch isn't acceptable as there's no way to secure it in the off position (at least, not on any domestic fan isolator I've seen). Thus leaving the only acceptable method being the same as for the lights - turn off the breaker at the CU and lock it off.

Note the ones that MK make can be fitted with a red plastic thing that stops the fan isolation switch being operated. The red plastic thing can also be fitted with a padlock to stop someone removing it. Both the red plastic thing and the padlock where provided with the fan isolation switch I purchased, for my bathroom fan. That said I have no idea where they are off the top of my head...

 

[SimonH2]

Note the ones that MK make can be fitted with a red plastic thing that stops the fan isolation switch being operated. The red plastic thing can also be fitted with a padlock to stop someone removing it. Both the red plastic thing and the padlock where provided with the fan isolation switch I purchased, for my bathroom fan.

Now I look, according to MK's website, the locking device is part no K4858 - something that is bought separately (as is the padlock).

That said I have no idea where they are off the top of my head...

Which makes them very useful Also, if an isolator needs a special (read - unique to that isolator) device to lock it, what's the chances of anyone actually having it and having it with them when they need it ?