Bathroom sockets

[NickKS]

Hello,

I've been reading a lot about UK rules in relation to electric sockets in bathrooms.
I've also been reading a lot about 'shaver' sockets. The 'shavers only' warning on all the sockets I believe dates back to the days before rechargeable batteries were a thing and the only way to use an electric shaver in a bathroom was to have it plugged in to the special shaver socket. Fast forward to the 21st century. We all now have electric toothbrushes. I have seen varying views on whether shaver sockets can / should be used with electric toothbrushes. I have also seen sockets for sale that indicate they are for both shavers and toothbrushes (but not sure that internally they are any different to a shaver socket). I have read that the issue with leaving a toothbrush plugged in is that the transformer can overheat. Regardless of this I would like to bet millions of UK homes are using shaver sockets for exactly that purpose. I am not an electrician and was wondering if the toothbrush doesn't stop drawing power once it is charged (and probably only has a very low trickle charge anyway). Can any one clarify this please and why aren't the technical specification clearer on this (as I suspect no one is still using a shaver that has to be plugged in to work anymore?!).

All of the shaver sockets on the market seem to be pretty ugly with designs and aesthetics dating back to when electric shavers were first invented. I have seen some new charging points specifically for toothbrushes from Proofvision (there is a double version and even one with extra sockets so a 'shaver' can also be plugged in - or water flosser or whatever other low power grooming device might be needed). I'm thinking about trying to hide the socket in or behind a new bathroom console (see photo of what it looks like in showroom without any charging sockets!) so that I don't have to have ugly toothbrushes or cables on display. Does anyone have any advice / tips on achieving this please?

As a secondary question I know that the rules state it is OK to have a normal 13A socket in a bathroom so long as it is 3m or more away from a bath or shower. I won't bother rehashing the debates about bathing with toasters and Darwin / extension leads. However, I would like to have a socket installed at A or B on the diagram attached. I want to put a freestanding cabinet there to store towels, medicines, etc. I'd also like to use that as a location to store beard trimmer, hair clippers, etc. Possibly even for the wife's hairdryer. It is more than 3m from the bath and sinks. However, with some creativity the shower / steam room (which is fully enclosed with a glass door) is within range if you were to run a cable under the glass door and then dry your hair while taking a shower and laying on the floor. Does anyone think an electrician would sign off on the 13A socket under these circumstances? This is a master bathroom not used by children.

Just curious, but does anyone else think the UK is long overdue for changing rules around sockets in bathrooms?

Thanks!

Nick

 

[ericmark]

I see the point you are making, with rechargeable shavers and tooth brushes there is really no need for any electrical outlet in a bathroom.

However when you put a shower in a bedroom, that room is classed as containing a bath or shower, so 3 meter rule and special shaver sockets are still required when a shower is fitted in a bedroom.

 

[NickKS]

Hi Eric,
Thanks. I would like all of the personal grooming paraphernalia to be stored / on hand in the bathroom (in case that wasn't clear the photo is of the bathroom furniture we are installing at a showroom - it won't be going in a bedroom) - the floor plan is of our master bathroom. If I'm going to trim my beard I would prefer to do that over the sink. If the wife is shaving her legs she does that in the shower. When I brush my teeth I do that over the sink. So I would like to store / charge all those things in the bathroom, not in another room in the house. I'm pretty sure my wife would prefer to dry her hair in the bathroom too (at least 3m away from bath).
The bedroom is just for sleeping (although I take your point that you increasingly see baths plonked in a bedroom and presumably causing all sorts of angst around electrical rules / building regulations).
Best,
Nick

 

[EFLImpudence]

If that is a shower at the bottom of the diagram, then your sockets are not more than 3m. from the door.

Basins are irrelevant.

 

[NickKS]

It is a shower / steam room with a door that seals (to keep the steam / water in). The door hinges as shown. As I said with some creativity you could shower with a toaster (by running the cable under the door and leaving door open - or running cable through crack between door and hinges when open - you could take plug off toaster, run cable through and put plug back on. If I was really desperate to shower with a toaster I could also just run an extension lead from just outside the bathroom door. It sounds as though common sense and intended use is irrelevant and it all rests on distances. Is that 3 dimensional distances or on the same plane? If I had a socket near the ceiling and ran cable into the cabinet I want to put in the alcove so I could then place items needing charging in cabinet I assume that would make no difference?
Thanks.

 

[EFLImpudence]

You could do all sorts of strange things but that wouldn't alter how far 3 metres is.

The distance is horizontally from the socket to a vertical plane from the edge of a bath or shower opening.

 

[NickKS]

So if the socket were close to the ceiling I would be OK as there is no opening to the shower close to the ceiling keeping on the same horizontal plane (see photo)? Although I assume not?! (BTW the bath is still to be installed so is not actually in the right position).

 

[flameport]

A&B on the diagram are more than 3m from the bath, so sockets could be installed there if the shower/steam item is considered to be it's own separate room.
If the shower is considered to be part of the same room, then they cannot, as it's less than 3m.

The rules on bathrooms do need to be revised, as the 3m thing is total nonsense.
A small bathroom cannot have any socket outlets in it - yet a socket outlet is permitted just outside the door, because that is not in the bathroom, and zones / measurements don't extend outside of the bathroom.

 

[JohnW2]

You could do all sorts of strange things but that wouldn't alter how far 3 metres is. ... The distance is horizontally from the socket to a vertical plane from the edge of a bath or shower opening.

A&B on the diagram are more than 3m from the bath, so sockets could be installed there if the shower/steam item is considered to be it's own separate room. .... If the shower is considered to be part of the same room, then they cannot, as it's less than 3m.

In the absence of any clarity in the regulations, it's those "IFs" which are the issue we quite often debate here, isn't it?

My cousin has a bathroom (without a bath) from which there is a 'traditional wooden door, in a full height wall' into a shower/wet room, and I would not think that anyone could successfully argue that the shower was not in a 'separate room' - but where does the dividing line come? What if the door were glass? What id the wall/partition bearing the door didn't extent right up to the ceiling? etc. etc.

The rules on bathrooms do need to be revised, as the 3m thing is total nonsense. ... A small bathroom cannot have any socket outlets in it - yet a socket outlet is permitted just outside the door, because that is not in the bathroom, and zones / measurements don't extend outside of the bathroom.

I agree that the rules are a bit silly and inconsistent - but what can/could they do to improve the situation? If (as might seem sensible in terms of the spirit of the reg) one were not allowed to have sockets within 3m of a bath or shower "as the extension lead flies" (with cable going under the door, or if door were slightly ajar) then, in my daughter's tiny London flat, that would preclude her having sockets in most/all of her bedroom and in much of her 'hallway' and kitchen/living room.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ericmark]

I do see your point, is the way the doors are fitted to the shower, is the shower classed as a wet room in its own right? so likely it is only the bath causing a problem. However some one has to sign the documents and get either a completion or compliance certificate.

I installed a wet room for my mother, and got in hot water as a result from the LABC inspector, it was sorted, but I had not realised I was doing anything wrong.

We had converted a pantry and a toilet into a wet room, since half was already a toilet I did not think we needed planning permission, but the builders who were doing the job had made a real mess, so wanted to take over, so checked if I needed to change anything on the planning consent the builders had got on our behalf, only to find they hadn't.

And I was picked up for things I did not consider I needed, like an extractor fan. I had an opening window so thought not required, but LABC said yes I did need one, as people could walk past the window when visiting the house.

So if that bath is not fixed, then technically not a bathroom, my daughters flat in Turkey had a wet room with no shower or bath, just taps and a jug, by the letter of bathroom regulations they could have had a socket in there, as with British rules it is not a bathroom, however bending to rules to suit will not work with a LABC inspector, or a scheme member electrician.

photo is of the bathroom furniture we are installing at a showroom

Of course in a showroom there may be no water plumbed in, and it would not be classed as a bathroom, however as to then fitting it into a home, it is another question.