Bathroom zoning in a split room

[JohnW2]

I take JohnW2's point that the definition of a "gap" in partitioning could be taken to ridiculous extremes but, as he also says later, doors can be left open and, for instance, a socket in a hallway or landing might then be well within the 3m limit. Let's face it, for many new-build houses these days 3m in any direction would take you well into your neighbour's property....

Yes, that's all true. My comments about the way in which a 'door-sized gap' being taken to extremes was really to support my belief that those who wrote the regs had in mind the fact that a door was what defined 'a separate room'. As you say, it might not be any worse than a socket on a landing (or even at the other end of the house, if one had a long extension lead!), but I think the temptation to plug in a hair-dryer etc., or even a fan heater (for use in the bathroom proper), would probably be greater if the socket were in the room (or even a 'sub-room'!).

As to the fittings I would like to install... First, I'd like the light switch (NOT a pull-cord variety) to be just inside the main door. Is that likely to be permitted given the layout of the room (image coming shortly)?

Are you definitely against the idea of a pull-switch? Regs aside, I would personally think there would be a significant risk of someone operating that switch with wet hands (far more so than if it were on the landing, before you raise that point!), and it also could possibly end up covered in condensation, so I would personally probably want a pull switch.

And yes, the intention would be to install a socket in one corner of the cloakroom approximately 800mm on the cloakroom side of the gap in the partition. It sounds as though that would definitely not be permitted unless the gap in the partition actually had a door, and even then might not be a good idea?

I think that I and others are agreed that, without a door, you'd be stuck with the 3m minimum for sockets. Also, as above, even forgetting the regs (and even if there were a door, which could be left open) I would personally be hesitant to tempt people to plug in things that could then be used in the 'main body' of the bathroom, particularly if there were a possibility of 'outsiders' (i.e. non-household members) ever using the room - but maybe I'm just over-cautious!

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

My interpretation:

Untitled

• EFLImpudence
• 9 Mar 2015
• 1

 

[JohnW2]

And yes, the intention would be to install a socket in one corner of the cloakroom approximately 800mm on the cloakroom side of the gap in the partition.

Do you know what you are contemplating plugging in to that socket. Is it by any chance something (like a hairdryer) which could be hard-wired (i.e. would have to stay there - like in some hotels!), rather than connected by a plug/socket?

Kind Regards, John

 

[Heedyheed]

Are you definitely against the idea of a pull-switch? Regs aside, I would personally think there would be a significant risk of someone operating that switch with wet hands (far more so than if it were on the landing, before you raise that point!), and it also could possibly end up covered in condensation, so I would personally probably want a pull switch.

I do dislike pull switches, but not as much as I dislike the idea of electrocution.

If I could find a really quiet pull-switch that didn't wake the whole household when anyone uses the bathroom in the middle of the night, I'd give it a go. Maybe I'll just move the light switch onto the other side of the wall - i.e. out of the room and into the hallway...

I think that I and others are agreed that, without a door, you'd be stuck with the 3m minimum for sockets. Also, as above, even forgetting the regs (and even if there were a door, which could be left open) I would personally be hesitant to tempt people to plug in things that could then be used in the 'main body' of the bathroom, particularly if there were a possibility of 'outsiders' (i.e. non-household members) ever using the room...

I take your point. I'm moving more and more towards having a separate door between the two parts of the room and scrapping the idea of having a socket in the cloakroom.

EFLImpudence - Many thanks for your edits to my drawing - they're very helpful and have clarified my understanding of the subject.

On a more general point, the en-suite has become almost a "must have" in recent years - not a fashion that I personally subscribe to, but that's not the point. Without living in a mansion, how does anyone manage to get an en-suite installed in a typical UK bedroom?

Mike

 

[Heedyheed]

Do you know what you are contemplating plugging in to that socket. Is it by any chance something (like a hairdryer) which could be hard-wired (i.e. would have to stay there - like in some hotels!), rather than connected by a plug/socket?

That's exactly what I was thinking. It's probably just a hairdrier - I can't see the need to power anything else in the cloakroom.

Mike

 

[JohnW2]

Do you know what you are contemplating plugging in to that socket. Is it by any chance something (like a hairdryer) which could be hard-wired (i.e. would have to stay there - like in some hotels!), rather than connected by a plug/socket?

That's exactly what I was thinking. It's probably just a hairdrier - I can't see the need to power anything else in the cloakroom.

Provided you don't want to be able to move the hairdryer elsewhere, it would seem an ideal solution. A switched FCU is allowed outside of Zone 2. As I said, many a hotel does just that with its hairdryers - but probably for different reasons

I do, however, still wonder about the wisdom of having an ordinary light switch (rather than a pull switch) in that sub-room given, as I said, the fact that it's far from impossible that wet hands and/or condensation will be afoot.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

I do dislike pull switches, but not as much as I dislike the idea of electrocution. If I could find a really quiet pull-switch that didn't wake the whole household when anyone uses the bathroom in the middle of the night, I'd give it a go.

I must have been typing my recent message when you posted this. I thought we were talking about the cloakroom/ dressing room - whilst I can understand people going to the 'bathroom' in the middle of the night, I would have thought that going to a dressing room in the middle of the night would be a pretty rare occurrence. Some pull switches are quieter than others. There would be other ways of doing it, to avoid 230V being at the switch, but they would be much more complicated. A 'remote controlled' switch would, I suppose, be one option.

I take your point. I'm moving more and more towards having a separate door between the two parts of the room and scrapping the idea of having a socket in the cloakroom.

We covered some of that in our recent exchange. With a fixed-wired hairdryer, you wouldn't need a door.

On a more general point, the en-suite has become almost a "must have" in recent years - not a fashion that I personally subscribe to, but that's not the point. Without living in a mansion, how does anyone manage to get an en-suite installed in a typical UK bedroom?

Don't have any sockets in it (and, anyway, they nearly always have doors)!

Kind Regards, John

 

[ericmark]

Bathroom

• ericmark
• 10 Mar 2015
• 1

I would say without a door the blue lines show where no sockets are permitted. The examples shown in BS7671 do not go around two corners.

Clearly a personal view and it would be for a court to decide.

But the point is the 600mm boundary is well defined with drawings in the regs the 3 meter boundary is not.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

On a more general point, the en-suite has become almost a "must have" in recent years - not a fashion that I personally subscribe to,

Why, what's wrong with it?

Without living in a mansion, how does anyone manage to get an en-suite installed in a typical UK bedroom?

You don't install anything into a bedroom. "En suite" means that you have a bathroom off the bedroom, not in it.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Bathroom

• ericmark
• 10 Mar 2015
• 1

I would say without a door the blue lines show where no sockets are permitted. The examples shown in BS7671 do not go around two corners.

They do not have a diagram for the 3 metres.

It is not the fact that a socket will cause the end of the world if nearer than 3 metres.
It is that appliances like hair driers come with 2 metres of flex and therefore cannot reach the bath.

So, I don't think the number of corners is relevant; it is the distance and, as was zone 3, it is 2.4 metres from the end of zone 2.

 

[ericmark]

It is clearly down to interpretation my point is it's not cut and dried and until they write it to say an appliance with a 3 meter flex plugged in must not reach the bath then it's dwon to how you read it.

f) Shower, without basin, but with permanent fixed partition diagram seems to support your view.