Battery question

[piffle]

If you're such an expert why bother asking in the first place.

It has already been stated the wrong battery could/may damage the charger, but hey, you carry on.

 

[bernardgreen]

It has already been stated the wrong battery could/may damage the charger, but hey, you carry on.

Or explode the battery pack, un-vented AA cells do a lot of damage when they explode, if the case remains intact and the insides blow out the end then it is similar to a bullet from a cartridge, Vented ones ( or those with a pressure release rupture point ) at least only spray hot liquid or gases around as their insides melt down.

And some explode some time after the charger has been removed. The full charge dissapted in a few tenths of a second via an internal short circuit is dramatic.

You know this sounds more like a battery pack for a model car than an alarm panel, or maybe some mobile phone. Exploding batteries in a hand held device can make a medical mess of the hand that holds it.

 

[batteryquestion]

[If you cant answer the question about using an alternative battery and the consequences of such then you are of no use at all to me and your odd suggestion that I am not giving information despite several times insisting I have the correct battery is of no help whatsoever.

Kindly refrain from answering this thread.

I design electronic equipment including items that have battery chargers built into them. So my experience is valid

The information you are providing is contra-dictory. How do you know the charger is rated at 12 volts 500 mA ? Is it a separate unit from the control panel.

But the most contra-dictory statement is that the charger is 12 volt and the original fitted battery is 7.5 volt. If that is true then the design of the system is not good. To put 500 mA into an AA cell ( or AA cells in series ) without temperature sensing of the cell pack to reduce charging current once the cells are fully charged isasking for damage to the cells and possible fire or explosion risk.

No one is going to give advice based on in-accurate information as the risk of possibly in-valid advice causing you to be injured is to high.

Thank you Bernard.
Sorry I have just checked again and the charger is 9v 500mA.
It is external like a phone charger and plugs into the panel.
I was refering to the other posters insistance that I must somehow have the wrong battery or be mistaken when I have the article in my hand.

The original battery is 3 cell AA Ni H 600mAh
the battery I have found and am considering as a replacement is 6 cell and 3200mAh

given the original battery was charging at 3v per cell and the new one will only be charging at 1.5 volts per cell would the battery charge at all or would it simply take 2 days to recharge rather than one?.

My reference to 4.5v per cell was the battery manufacturers warning not to charge above 4.5v per cell.

 

[JohnD]

Not going to divulge the panel type, though

 

[batteryquestion]

If you're such an expert why bother asking in the first place.

It has already been stated the wrong battery could/may damage the charger, but hey, you carry on.

No you inferred the battery I had couldn't possibly be the correct one and had I made some sort of mistake.

I have supplied the information to enable someone with the correct knowledge to tell me wether my considered replacement battery will work or not.

Basically could I replace a 3cell 7.2mAh 600mAh battery with a 6 cell 7,2v battery of 3200mAh if the charger is an external 9v 500mAh .

It was resolved earlier that the battery would allow the unit to work longer without mains power. The question now is wether the charger is up to the job of keeping it topped up.
My original concern was wether the more powerful battery would just drain itself quicker by simply lighting up the backlight brighter or such.

 

[bernardgreen]

OK now the situation is starting to clarify

What are the maker's names and type numbers on the batteries ?

How do you know it is a 3 cell battery ?

Are you confusing a pair of stacked cells to be a single cell ? Stacked cells being 2 or more AA cells joined ( welded ) end to end and then sealed into a plastic tube to appear as a single cell ?

There was ( maybe still is ) a rechargeable double AA cell that was two cells in the standard AA size pack but with a voltage of 2.4 volts.

This was ( I was told by a battery manufacturer) designed to over drive model cars with double the voltage from the same sized battery pack.

 

[batteryquestion]

Not going to divulge the panel type, though

I didn't divulge the panel type because it is a Yale hsa 6400 and I have seen previous threads while searching for an answer that would indicate that mentioning yale is akin to admitting you wear your underpants over your trousers so seeking to avoid abuse I didn't mention it was yale.
However I have wasted my time as it would seem piffle and europlex wish to pounce on new posters regardless.
The advertisers on here won't get much exposure on here as I certainly won't be back.

now Bernard hopefully will answer the question and I can get out of here.

 

[JohnD]

the charger is 9v 500mA.
It is external like a phone charger and plugs into the panel.

I was wondering if the voltage supplied to the panel is necessarily the same as the voltage that the panel supplies to the battery on float charge.

the panel might do some regulating of its own.

 

[batteryquestion]

OK now the situation is starting to clarify

What are the maker's names and type numbers on the batteries ?

How do you know it is a 3 cell battery ?

Are you confusing a pair of stacked cells to be a single cell ? Stacked cells being 2 or more AA cells joined ( welded ) end to end and then sealed into a plastic tube to appear as a single cell ?

There was ( maybe still is ) a rechargeable double AA cell that was two cells in the standard AA size pack but with a voltage of 2.4 volts.

This was ( I was told by a battery manufacturer) designed to over drive model cars with double the voltage from the same sized battery pack.

The replacement I have found is indeed from a RC hobby shop.
The original has three AA cells side by side and is rated 600mAh and the replacement I am looking at is 6 AA cells side by side. The packs are the same cell height one just has more cells. I don't think the cells are the souped up type you metion as the output voltage is still only 7.2v.
I cannot find a replacement for the original and scouring battery website I have been unable to find a 7.2v 600mAh direct replacement.

 

[JohnD]

is it like http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Battery-for-Y...temQQptZUK_Burglar_Alarms?hash=item33590a4ed0 ?

ad says
"Genuine Yale Battery by GP Batteries.
Ni-MH Battery
P/N: 60AAAH6BMJ
7.2V 600mAh A7
Compatible with for the following YALE alarms:
HSA6400 Premium Alarm System"

and it looks like

though I can't find that spare battery on Yale's website

 

[yaleguy]

Hi,
Although I can't anser your technical question I can possibly help you out.
Yale aren't currently supplying the 6400 batteries I don't know if they will but you can get replacements on Ebay.

Good luck...

Edit.. John D Bless him has beaten me to it.

 

[batteryquestion]

is it like http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Battery-for-Y...temQQptZUK_Burglar_Alarms?hash=item33590a4ed0 ?

ad says
"Genuine Yale Battery by GP Batteries.
Ni-MH Battery
P/N: 60AAAH6BMJ
7.2V 600mAh A7
Compatible with for the following YALE alarms:
HSA6400 Premium Alarm System"

and it looks like

though I can't find that spare battery on Yale's website

thanks John.
That looks like it will be fine. Although the original is only 3 cell and wrapped in Yellow plastic. Cheers

No I couldn't find an exact replacement either or a spare at Yale.

If these 'genuine' replacements will do the trick then they will be fine.

 

[JohnD]

you're sure the old one isn't like http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Battery-for-Y...temQQptZUK_Burglar_Alarms?hash=item33590a4af1

 

[batteryquestion]

you're sure the old one isn't like http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Battery-for-Y...temQQptZUK_Burglar_Alarms?hash=item33590a4af1

No its definately just 3 cells which surprised me to be honest. maybe they must be the souped up variety that bernard had mentioned. They are ony 3 cells and the space they take up is small. with a piece of foam filling up some of the original battery holder space. maybe Yale had a supply problem at some stage.

 

[bernardgreen]

All is now clear

The original 7.5 volt battery that looked like a 3 cell battery was a 6 cell battery constructed from 3 double cells. You might be able to feel the joint halfway down the cell.

The new battery from a radio control shop will be designed for supplying motors at high power for short durations almost immediately after charging. Internally these batteries are quite different from those design to supply back-up power over a few hours to electronic equipment.

The motor type batteries often have a higher self discharge rate ( they lose charge without anything being connected so the expected back up time may not be as long as expected. Some may even self discharge in less than 10 hours ( incrediable but true ) so that would be less than the one you have now.

The other problem you may get is the panel's charger circuit ( which regulates the charging current into the battery ) may not be able to recharge the larger battery faster than the battery is self-discharging. The charger in the control panel probably charges at around 60mA ( optimum charge rate is XmA where X is one tenth of capacity in mAhr ). I have seen batteries for motors in model cars with self discharge of over 50mA

So conclusion is that the battery from the radio control shop may not be as good as the one supplied with the alarm. Maybe perfectly good for supplying motors but not as a reliable back up for an alarm system.