Baxi Bermuda 57/4E not firing up

[ianmcd]

your grasp of how it is wired is completely wrong Im afraid

 

[LovemyBaxi]

Well after spending over £450 I've definitely learned the hard way that I need to get an engineer round who knows what they are doing and my DIY efforts are done. Spend so far; Pump £113, Pump valve £5, Plastic joint box £1,Fused spur box £4, Leak sealer £3.50, Inhibitor £8, 3a fuses £2, Fluke volt detector £23, Adjustable wrench £12, Wiring box £14,Gas engineer £140,Posting PCB back £7, Motororised valves x 2 £94
Ferrule crimper £23

For anybody seeing this post in future my original issue was almost certainly a boiler fault, I guessed at a pump change, then decided to tidy up the spur box as red neon light had failed ages ago, saw a cable joint close to chimney breast on the boiler cable run - a connector wrapped in a bit of electrical tape and so I replaced this with a plastic box- failed to tighten wires correctly and spotted today the blue wire had come loose. Non contact voltage tester showed the cable as "live" consistent with permanent live lit on PCB in boiler. BAXI fault chart suggesting "no LEDs lit" is for engineers not DIY as you only see all the LEDs after gas fire front removed. The no lights at all fault suggests a fuse and if not that then a PCB change will be needed. I bought a PCB and a 3a fuse thinking this would prevent engineer needing 2nd visit. The dreaded engineer - he was told of the DIY bits I'd attempted and diagnosed a fault upstairs. Posted the PCB back - thank goodness for distance selling rules. 1 M.V replaced which didn't resolve anything. Then bought crimpers and wiring box - clearly got 2 cables wrong way round, what an ass to think fat wire to big boiler and little wire was going to small room stat without being certain. Alerted to my stupidity when the 3a fuse went POP as I turned the programmer on to heat, I'm thinking this has also damaged the microswitch on M.V two as it was definitely working before this sorry saga. Swapped them round - and after good advice - to be absolutely certain took up all floor boards and ripped out paneling to follow the cable its whole distance. Baxi fault chart suggests that if switched live LED is not lit first check is for mains voltage between SL and L and if not to check wiring and controls.

So the blue wire in the joint on the cable to the boiler has now been corrected and when HW is on I can hear sparking - nothing is lighting. Not sure if the last engineer has turned anything else off in the boiler but I'm assuming this was the original fault. 2nd MV is on its way so I will fit that. For anybody that doesn't know any recommended trades people Which has a trusted trader scheme. Hindsight is wonderful. The good thing to come of this is that I've forced myself to use the multimeter. I'll probably do a final update when a gas engineer has been and confirmed what the real issue was. Hoping my electrical wiring stupidity hasn't also damaged the PCB but the fuse on that hasn't blown when the boiler is clearly trying to ignite, fingers crossed.

Thanks to everybody for their help on this.

 

[ianmcd]

Is the 3 way gas valve in the correct position ?

 

[LovemyBaxi]

No, I realise now that that is the one that engineer 1 turned off. On the BAXI fault finder the first thing to check if the spark doesn’t light is if there is gas, there’s a pic of the gas tap showing on and off and it’s definitely off. I’m going to complain to that gas company and ask for the reason why it was turned off, I thought he meant only the fire front was off. I don’t think there was a reason but the next person needs to know this before it’s turned back on. My thoughts are now that the pump was the primary issue, not using heating probably made the MV spindle seize and when I checked it over I probably loosened it, but had created a fresh set of electrical issues by then

 

[ianmcd]

well if the gas is turned off, how do you expect the boiler to light ?????

 

[LovemyBaxi]

Lol, I didn’t realise at first that the gas was off to the boiler, engineer only said I wouldn’t be able to use the fire. So now I’ve been very bad and turned the gas on to check it works, everything seems perfect and the previous noisy banging has stopped, it’s practically silent. So having established that I’ve now turned the gas back off again just in case there was some reason for it until I get another engineer round to check it properly and advise if my air vents are sufficient or not. Happy days.

 

[DP]

Lol, I didn’t realise at first that the gas was off to the boiler, engineer only said I wouldn’t be able to use the fire. So now I’ve been very bad and turned the gas on to check it works, everything seems perfect and the previous noisy banging has stopped, it’s practically silent. So having established that I’ve now turned the gas back off again just in case there was some reason for it until I get another engineer round to check it properly and advise if my air vents are sufficient or not. Happy days.

Where in the country are you

Not every gas engineer will have working knowledge or skill of this boiler

 

[FiremanT]

Lol, I didn’t realise at first that the gas was off to the boiler, engineer only said I wouldn’t be able to use the fire. So now I’ve been very bad and turned the gas on to check it works, everything seems perfect and the previous noisy banging has stopped, it’s practically silent. So having established that I’ve now turned the gas back off again just in case there was some reason for it until I get another engineer round to check it properly and advise if my air vents are sufficient or not. Happy days.

After this sad tale, hopefully all is okay!

With regard to the vents: technically, the combustion air vent should not be in the kitchen. I, honestly, do not 100% know why, I have always assumed that it is to avoid transmission of odours (although it is obviously irrelevant of open plan). However, I would not create an issue if I came across an existing situation. The problem MAY be that the vents are not of sufficient size or type. They must be permanently open (not the sliding Hit & Miss type, eg) and definitely no insect mesh.

The original plum does seem to be an arse, tbh

 

[LovemyBaxi]

I’m in SE London/Kent borders and getting any tradesmen for small jobs is difficult. During lockdown people were pleased to get work so I had my guttering replaced and house painted. All change in 2021 so my gas service is overdue. It only takes an extra few minutes to remove the gas fire although the other parts are less accessible than on a combi, I don’t know if this is why nobody is keen for the work, or because there’s never normally much wrong with a Baxi so very little extra work generated. I won’t be telling the next person the history, I’m simply going to book a service

my vent cover on the wall is the wrong type as I inserted mesh on the outside below the cover and the inside can also slide closed. I’d always thought that the unobstructed hole in my kitchen was used instead, or to compensate, it’s where a tumble drier vent was used so a clear breeze blows through. I will get some new covers for inside and outside of the wall vent just in case before booking a service. I could sign up for British Gas service plan but I’d prefer an independent person, I might be wrong but I just expect a big company to put more pressure on me to have a whole new system installed.

 

[LovemyBaxi]

The final twist to the tale was that engineer 1 had pointed to the right hand motorised valve and told me that was faulty, he'd actually bent the metal slider over and told me it was seized, I don't know if he said it was for the hot water or if I just assumed that (as the CH control was starting the pump). After he'd gone and I'd bent the metal straight and seeing it wasn't seized at all I then changed it (doh). When I did the wiring of my new box I wired that MV into the HW connectors rather than the CH (double doh). So now I've discovered it was the left hand MV that was for the HW and faulty, (only the synchron motor needed changing) wiring swapped round, new air vents and definitly all sorted now. Thanks to distance selling rules I returned an unused MV (only £3 postage) which helped towards the cost of the proper engineer who knew his stuff