BCO requires competant sign off of installation

[bradf0rd]

My BCO is asking for sign off of some electrical work I have carried out myself.
I have added 5 new sockets by breaking into a ring main (Blck and red) and also moved one light and added one new light to an existing radial circuit.
No sockets are in bathroom or kitchen.
I have had one spark around today, he looked at the DB and said he couldn't do anything as the board had MCB's and no RCDs - which is what is required by ed 17. Looking around, I only see a requirement for RCD's on the more volatile equipment (outside lights, showers etc) and not on std ring or lighting circuits.
What is generally required for BCO - does he need the whole shooting match and would I need to replace the DB and have the whole house tested, point for point or is there anything halfway I can approach him. Looking more for things to propose to the BCO rather going all green and asking him what his minimum requirement is.
All work has been carried out on 1 light and 1 mains circuit, the kit I have, maybe older than ideal, but I really can't afford a massive outlay to have the house rewired back to a new DB.

 

[Spark123]

I'm thinking your spark is correct. If you are installing any unprotected concealled cables <50mm then to meet the requirements of the 17th edition they need to be RCD protected (30mA trip).
In order to replace a CU would require all circuits to be inspected and tested and certified on an EIC. The condition of the existing installation will depend on how much work is required to bring it up to the 17th edn' standard.
You could get just the circuits which you worked on put on an RCD protected board but this would still limit you in the future.

 

[flameport]

Socket outlets for general use require an RCD, regardless of where they are installed or how deep the cables are.

 

[RF Lighting]

And sockets which could reasonably be expected to supply equipment outdoors have done for the last fifteen years...

 

[sparkyspike]

Is your BCO referring to the lighting alterations as well as the sockets? If you can agree that only the work on the sockets requires notification, then you could perhaps have your spark fit an RCBO on the ring circuit. An RCBO can cost between £20 - £40 depending on where you get it.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

My BCO is asking for sign off of some electrical work I have carried out myself.

Did you notify them in advance?

And therefore pay them a fee?

For which they are obliged to carry out inspection & testing?

And have you pointed out to them that nowhere do the Building Regulations require an EIC to be issued?

I have added 5 new sockets by breaking into a ring main (Blck and red) and also moved one light and added one new light to an existing radial circuit.

No sockets are in bathroom or kitchen.

Then the sockets were not notifiable, and nothing to do with the BCO.

Where are the lights that you added?

I have had one spark around today, he looked at the DB and said he couldn't do anything as the board had MCB's and no RCDs - which is what is required by ed 17.

Compliance with Edition 17 is not mandated by the Building Regulations.

What is generally required for BCO - does he need the whole shooting match and would I need to replace the DB and have the whole house tested, point for point or is there anything halfway I can approach him.

I'm struggling to understand why he is involved at all....

 

[Pensdown]

I'm struggling to understand why he is involved at all....

Me too..

bradf0rd - please tell us more about the project and why BC became involved?

 

[rebuke]

At a guess these are sockets etc in a new extension that building control was looking at anyway?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

bradf0rd - if that is the case, what did you tell LABC you'd be doing to comply with Part P when you submitted your request for Building Regulations approval?

 

[bradf0rd]

I never really mentioned anything about electrics on the building notice.

I ran my project on a building notice, not full plans. When I met with the BCO 1st time, I was advised to put in the costs for several projects, which would be a one off cost and I could leave it open for several projects.

The building notice initally covered a roof line change and some minor block work. It was only when it came to post roofing and building, when discussing the completion certificate he said to insulate, dryline, skim up add electrics and call him back to check. I said that the ring man would only be extended and a new light and could I do it myself - he only replied I would need a certificate from a qualified person to cover the work.
It was just a shock when the RCD thing came into play.

Last year, my sisters boiler broke down, so she decided to get a new one fit, but the corgi guy wouldn't connect it to a fused spur, and she had to get a sparks in. Oh dear, no this, no that - £2.5K and a total rewire later the boiler got commissioned. Over Xmas I visited and she showed me what the £2.5K covered, as he had to re run many cables - to avoid having to channel lots of plaster and decorating out, he decided not to rewire in several sockets, all the under unit lights in the kitchen nor the cooker hood.

I didn't really understand the full implications of Part P really until you come across a official request for it. I was wondering if I looked at it really on the negative side, and was seeing his request to negatively and as a massive job requested from such a std request for information.

I wondered if there was some half way house, maybe get a sparks to sign off all the browns and blue were correct, earth sleeving was correctly applied and I understood why and how a ring main worked and how a lighting circuit was different - showing I had more knowledge than which way around the wires went ..

just am shocked I am looking at replacing the whole DB as it supports 8 MCB's to get an official stamp for one room ..

 

[First-time-buyer]

Edited to remove incorrect info.

 

[bradf0rd]

The board I have already has MCB's on board, it was the case that all circuits needed RCD's to be 17th edition compatible that caught me out.
I had looked around, and until that point,thought that only kitchen or shower type apps, or anything outside needed them.

I found a link to this www.competentperson.co.uk and a government brochure, it clearly states that adding to an existing circuit (lighting or mains) is exempt from BC. But does extending an existing ring main into a new extension bring something else into play I can see ?

I will talk to my BC guy next week and see what he says, just wondered - has anyone seen anything similar and know of any outcomes ?

 

[RF Lighting]

Boards are cheap to buy, its the labour thats expensive, id expect about 2 hours to replace it, and then about another 1.5hrs to test it.

Did notice that the local B&Q had split load boards, think 8way with MCB's for just over £80, so unsure what the local CEF, or Newey & Eyre are doing them for.

Please do not post incorrect advice on this forum.

A standard mains change will take a full working day to be properly replaced and and all the relevent testing and paperwork be completed.

B&Q may well sell split load boards. Thats all good and well, except for the fact they do NOT comply with BS7671, so an electrician could not fit one and sign it off.

 

[rebuke]

I found a link to this www.competentperson.co.uk and a government brochure, it clearly states that adding to an existing circuit (lighting or mains) is exempt from BC. But does extending an existing ring main into a new extension bring something else into play I can see ?

It's not notifiable under Part P, but it is still covered by it, which means you have to comply with it. This means that building control can't insist on having a qualified spark sign off on it (they can't do this even for notifiable work in fact, inspection and testing is their responsibility and at their expense), but if they see that you've done work that's 'wrong' while inspecting other parts of a building project, then you are still in breach of the regulations, and thus the law.

Now, Part P does not specifically state work must comply with the wiring regulations (BS7671), and the regs themselves are not legally enforceable, however, you'd generally have to have a good reason for doing something against the regs.

The regs now requires all general purpose socket outlets to be RCD protected, since you've added new ones, you need to make sure these comply, i.e. ensure they're RCD protected, so building control is quite right to pick up on it (though they're not right in forcing you to get a spark to sign off on it). One option that might work for you, is just to fit all your new sockets as ones with integral RCDs, however note that this is only OK as long as you don't have any wiring buried less than 50mm in the wall (unless in earthed metal conduit)...

 

[Chri5]

Once there was general rule that suggested "an addition to an installation" should leave the installation "no less safe".

Which in purity, for the work you have done would have been a minor works certificate.
After all you have only added a few sockets and strung a new lamp on an existing light circuit.

Here we are saying you need a new board, bonding likely for gas and water and a full retest for all circuits.

It's your choice, but if you can argue that all cables are 50mm away from wall or floor surface then a simple MWC would apply.

Next level up would be to seek a spark and ask for him to check and inspect / test your work and add in an RCBO for each of the circuits you have added to, other works may be essential such as 10mm EB for gas water etc.
A EIC- Electrical installation certificate would be issued

Top level would be board replacement and full tweak for full certification for BS7671:2008 17th.

The last is a comfort level. It is prudent to bring every circuit up to scratch, but (as far as I know) there's no legal requirement to do so. Only the circuits you have worked on.

Finally under the rules, an electrician is NOT allowed to pass 3rd party work (unless they are his employees / contractors). They could say no and have to do a full install.
I would suggest you approach them and explain you dilemma. For such small work I would certify your bit of the job subject to checking absolutely every point and termination and I'd also want to see routes under floors / above ceilings.
Daft things like grommets on the metal punch outs, how you sleeved earths, correct termination (no bare conductors beyond term screws), earthing in the metal back boxes must be done to my standard.

Some here would just say no.

Since I know plenty of builders that still 1st fix, there are guys out there printing money via certs without due concern of the QC and management of the work they sign off which is very naughty. I don't agree with that, but a 1 room job done by a seasoned DIYer isn't going to mean condemning the rest of the property, well I hope not.

Consider all the musings and then have a chat with the BCO.