Biasi Boiler ?

[kerryf]

Thanks Dan, I appreiciate your reply. I would love to buy a nice expensive piece of kit, however at the moment funds will not allow and I need some hot water.

 

[Dan Robinson]

Tony,

The drain free-kits were withdrawn 'cos some people had trouble with the nozzle clogging, and burning the pumps out. An upgrade was made for those already installed but I think the Atmos lot wanted to find something a little more elegant.

They don't tell meeverything...

The multi comes with a 75mm trap in the box so why this knob didn't fit I don't know - 'cos then you can connect straight to a foul drain .

Mehan, totally agree; but what I can never understand is why people use the "we're skint" argument for fitting cheap 'n' nasty (IMHO of course). You are investing in a key part of the home that should last a long time.

Just seems counter-intuitive to me, but then different strokes for different folk's I suppose.

 

[Agile]

That reminds me of the fellow I met with a seven bed £3M house who would not spend just £2000 for a replacement condensing boiler which would have saved about £500 p.a. on his gas bill.

He was about to trade in his 2 y.o. big Jag for a new Landrover Freelander with all the extras at about £27k.

His old boiler was dangerous but he just would not replace it.

Tony

 

[Dan Robinson]

Talking of cheap shltty boilers, you should have had a call today about a Glowworm...

 

[mehran]

Talking of cheap shltty boilers, you should have had a call today about a Glowworm...

now now, no need to be like that. the punter pays his money and he gets his boiler. if you going to buy a shltty boiler better to have it cheap than expensive

 

[Dan Robinson]

very true

 

[daz3770]

B & Q have some deals on Biasi, or they did last time i was in there.

 

[Doctor Drivel]

I find it a little disrespectful calling a Biasi a "cheap boiler".

They are very good boilers but sold fairly cheaply. ( Thats different! )

The did get something of a questionable reputation because they were bought by people who wanted to get them badly installed by non-registered people.

And I'm sure badly installed by some registered too.

That was totally unfair because it was not the boiler's fault if the system was not cleaned properly.

The most important feature is how its installed and particularly if the system it totally clean and the gas pipe correctly sized.

They are now one of the most reliable boilers when correctly installed and in the last few years they have had no significant reliability problems unlike Vaillant ( diverter valves and then seals ) or Viessmann ( PCBs ).

More an more installers are now realising that they are a good boiler but a reputation is hard to shake off quickly.

They use stock Italian parts and are very much like Ariston boilers in parts make up inside.

Don't buy a boiler with secondary condensing heat exchanger, sometimes referred to as a recouperator. Buy one with a one piece heat exchanger. I think all BIASI's have recouperators - others may clarify this.

 

[Doctor Drivel]

Thanks Dan, I appreiciate your reply. I would love to buy a nice expensive piece of kit, however at the moment funds will not allow and I need some hot water.

The Atmos - a far superior boiler in every respect is £954 + VAT = £1120 maximum

The BIASI is nearly £800. For an extra £300 the Atmos is well worth it. A no brainer.

http://tinyurl.com/38dxqs

 

[Doctor Drivel]

We would cover Stevenage, but...cheap is not something I do I'm afraid. Our InterCombi list price (with flue, "make my life easier" bracket and delivery) is £954.35+VAT although there is a little movement on that.

But then there are naff all spare parts to buy compared to most of these other cheap and nasty things. So future maintenace costs are going to be much lower - no diverter, no diaphrams, no PHE or thin waterways etc.

Just a pump, fan, 3 temp sensors, gas valve, flow switch, spark generator pcb, burner, EV (at the front that swings out easily).

The Riva advance - tonnes more, IMHO these boilers are sold cheap so that the spares can be milked for all their worth.

I have always like the design of this Atmos combi. Simple with few parts and the heat exchanger is like the back panel of the boiler making full use of the space inside the casing. Very well thought out. Reliable it certainly is, however the DHW flowrate is rather poor to what others turn out today.

Is there to be an improved update of this model?

 

[Agile]

Don't buy a boiler with secondary condensing heat exchanger, sometimes referred to as a recouperator. Buy one with a one piece heat exchanger. I think all BIASI's have recouperators - others may clarify this.

The Biasi does have the M96 band B model with a recouperator. However this is a totally stainless steel unit and does not give any problems at all. Its one of the very few band Bs to have this!

The latest Biasi is the band A M110 premix. This is very similar to most of the other manufacturers although it does have external weather compensation and comes with a two year guarantee. Currently it still has brass water sections and the full stainless gianonni heat exchanger. It comes with a two year warranty.

The M96 is about £590 inc for the 28 kW and about £670 inc for the M110 32 kW version. Both are very reliable when properly installed.

Tony

 

[Doctor Drivel]

We would cover Stevenage, but...cheap is not something I do I'm afraid. Our InterCombi list price (with flue, "make my life easier" bracket and delivery) is £954.35+VAT although there is a little movement on that.

But then there are naff all spare parts to buy compared to most of these other cheap and nasty things. So future maintenace costs are going to be much lower - no diverter, no diaphrams, no PHE or thin waterways etc.

Just a pump, fan, 3 temp sensors, gas valve, flow switch, spark generator pcb, burner, EV (at the front that swings out easily).

This has brought up in my mind the two combi approach using these combis, rather than: a powerful system boiler, unvented cylinder or heat bank and zone valves and stats to give a two zone (upstairs and down) heating system. In short using the energy available down the gas pipe rather than using a fraction of it and storing energy in space taking cumbersome cylinders that can expensively rot.

With two combis, one can do downstairs CH one upstairs, both on stat/programmers. One can do the DHW of one bathroom, one the other. Both combine the DHW to supply the bath giving over 24 litres/min fill rate.

The U6 gas meter will just cope with two Atmos'. and a dedicated 22mm supply for each back to the meter is all that is needed.

CH Zoning is infinitely more simpler. Zoning with system boiler is cumbersome, complex, space consuming and messy. Even zoning with an Atmos system boiler has two zone valves hanging off complicating matters.

Two combis will never run out of hot water, as will a cylinder, so great for multi-jet showers.

Two Atmos combis can be had for around £2,000 (even cheaper than one Atmos Multi). How much is the cost of a:

- a top rated RR quality system boiler as is the Atmos.
- unvented cylinder for two bathrooms and to cope for a multi-jet shower or two (the cylinder needs to be very expensive stainless steel to last the minimum 20 years of the Atmos combis),
- zone valves,
- stats,
- electrical control wiring
- extra kit,
- etc?

Not to mention labour, etc. No doubt more money than the two Atmos combis.

It has DHW and CH backup having two boilers, which one boiler will not.

The very fast heat up time, of 63kW being pumped into the house is highly significant to the normal 15kW in most houses. The combi boilers modulate the CH input too.

Two simple and highly reliable combis, as is the Atmos, are less complex than three zone valves and stats in a cylinder and two heating zone setup.

The electrical control side is a doddle to do. Two sockets (or fused spur), one for each and a simple one wire to a stat programmer, switched on voltage free contacts at the clock. Or use wireless versions to get around Part P.

Reliability is extended as the two combis share the load so are used less.

If I was doing a new system with mains pressure hot water and two CH heating zones, I would certainly consider the two Atmos combi route. Every time I have costed two combis over a system boiler/unvented cylinder, two CH zones, the two combis always comes out tops is installation costs. Detractors whine that two combis is less reliable (maybe they are thinking of BIASIs )- with two Atmos combis that is not the case.

 

[Doctor Drivel]

Don't buy a boiler with secondary condensing heat exchanger, sometimes referred to as a recouperator. Buy one with a one piece heat exchanger. I think all BIASI's have recouperators - others may clarify this.

The Biasi does have the M96 band B model with a recouperator. However this is a totally stainless steel unit and does not give any problems at all. Its one of the very few band Bs to have this!

The latest Biasi is the band A M110 premix. This is very similar to most of the other manufacturers although it does have external weather compensation and comes with a two year guarantee. Currently it still has brass water sections and the full stainless gianonni heat exchanger.

What do you mean by this? A pressure operated 3-way valve?

What is the minimum CH output?

 

[Doctor Drivel]

The Biasi does have the M96 band B model with a recouperator. However this is a totally stainless steel unit and does not give any problems at all. Its one of the very few band Bs to have this!

The latest Biasi is the band A M110 premix.

The Riva OV. Does this have a one piece heat X? How much is this one? Can the burner be set to be fixed output? A simple cheap boiler can be very useful on a direct heat bank. The anti-boiler cycling will mean it will last far longer having one long efficient burn, and be more reliable as the controls are not clicking in every few minutes. The water flow through the heat X is on full at all times too. In short, it is operating at optimum operational and hydraulic conditions.

 

[mehran]

agile means that the flow and return group is in brass rather then plastic, biasi is one of the last makers to be moving to this. Currently the m96 is in most reliable state it has ever been, it is a bargain right now cheap(ish) boiler with good reliability. Biasi is changing the return group from brass to plastic soon tho.

atmos is 400-500 more in price, it is not a mass market boiler so does not have the 100,000s of boiler to show how good it is. it have a alu hx as well

the biasi ov is not a biasi boiler, it is a halstead eden. Biasi is using it as a stop gap boiler till it can get it's own in house designed OV boiler out the door.

The call out I do get from biasi are 90% related to installer error