Biasi Riva Compact HE M96.24SM/C No Ignition

[porks]

Hi

I have a Biasi Riva Compact HE and it wont spark.

The symptoms are the boiler is switched on and the fan fires for about 0.25 seconds then cuts outs. The pump is running and the flow switch engages correctly. The diverter valve can be heard to move across and sounds like its working ok.

I have checked the following:

Main Circuit Flow Switch works and the micro switch makes on the multi meter.
Both Temp probes are reading 13ohms.
Fan reads 43ohms.
Pump is slightly low at 218ohms against 230ohms nominal
DHW Flow Switch Red LED lights on DHW demand.
Flow Switch diaphragm cleaned.
Pressure Gauge Working @ 1.5bar.
No apparent leaks on sealed chamber.
Test ports at top are tight.
PCB fuses checked and no sign of dry joints.
No visible fluid or obstruction in condensate trap.
On draining the main circuit the water was clean and in good condition

I wired the fan directly to the mains by pulling the leads from the PCB connector and the fan runs well and I can hear the APS working and it shows as working on the multi meter.

As the APS can be heard working I have assumed the venturi is clear.

There is no boiler lockout light but there is a fault light on the left hand light bank of one solid green right hand LED and the middle red and left green LED's are flashing at about once every second.

Please could you give me some pointers. I assume its either the APS or the PCB at fault.

I am unsure of the start sequence but I think that the PCB checks if the APS is closed before it starts the fan, then checks for flow and if all is ok sends the ignition signal.

Any help would be appreciated.

Many thanks.

 

[Agile]

This is a fault associated with the gas/combustion and we dont give DIY advice on that sort of problem on this forum.

In fact a DIYer should not even be opening the combustion chamber!

The only suggestion is to call a competent gas reg engineer.

Tony

 

[porks]

This is a fault associated with the gas/combustion and we dont give DIY advice on that sort of problem on this forum.

In fact a DIYer should not even be opening the combustion chamber!

The only suggestion is to call a competent gas reg engineer.

Tony

This is a fault associated with the gas/combustion and we dont give DIY advice on that sort of problem on this forum.

In fact a DIYer should not even be opening the combustion chamber!

The only suggestion is to call a competent gas reg engineer.

Tony

Fair enough but just a few points to note:

1. Where did I say in my post I had removed the sealed chamber? - I have not, if you read correctly I said that I wired the mains into the Fan PCB plug at the BOARD to test if it was running ok.

2. I just wanted some advice so when I call in an engineer I don't get ripped off by having someone replace the PCB when it doesn't need it

 

[Agile]

OK lets hope it stays that way.

There seems a slight discrepancy as the fault code you listed does not seem to be applicable to your model as stated.

However, its a code for a later model and indicates a faulty APS.

BUT, in 99% of cases the APS is fine and its a logic fault in the PCB !

You seem to have tested that the APS shows continuity when the fan is operated. If thats the case with a resistance of under 3 ohms then that indicates its the PCB at fault.

So my expectation is that its a PCB fault. You can change that yourself but may need some tedious setting up although many come all ready to use.

I have not seen your boiler so thats only my expectation! Getting an RGI isolates you from any risk of wrong diagnosis. For this fault they usually replace the APS twice and then give up !

Tony Glazier

 

[Anthony Cook]

Did you resolve the problem to this?

A Boiler engineer suggested it maybe a pump issue so I had it swapped over. This has not fixed the problem.

After lock out the error indicator lights suggest a "Lack of burner ignition (no ignition signal from the full sequence ignition device)". However the ignition device is working as it can be seen through the viewing window.

So could this be a PCB issue? The engineer that came round did suggest that these brand of boilers are notorious for PCB failures.

Oh and I'll mention straight away, I have no intention or entering the combustion chamber or any of bit that maybe detrimental to my health.

Thank you in advance.

Anthony

PS here is a little video showing information about the boiler and what is occurring. Sorry it's a bit blurry!

 

[Agile]

So would you like to explain on what basis this engineer came to see your boiler and how much he was paid?

How did he respond when you told him changing the pump has not fixed it?

Tony

 

[Anthony Cook]

The visit was based on a free diagnosis.

After he told me about the pump and it would cost £140 to buy I had a quick look on the web for the part and was able to purchase it for half that price.
When the part arrive I contacted the plumber/engineer and left a message but didn't hear back.
I decided to fit the part myself as it was basically 1 bolt, 3 clips and 2 screws. That's the end of the story, good huh!?

Gonna buy the PCB and fit that. Not a huge issue as it's basically just plugs.

 

[Agile]

No engineer in their right mind make a free diagnosis so the customer can then fit parts themselves. How could they ever make a living like that?

Makes me wonder if he intentionally told you the wrong part?

Was it really a genuine new Biasi part you bought for just £70? Or was it just a Wilo pump that happened to fit?

Tony

 

[Anthony Cook]

His advice wasn't directed at DIY, he told me what he thought was wrong and I took it upon myself to fit the part after he didn't return my call asking him to fit it.

The new part was the same except that holes needed to be drilled into the pump gasket for the pressure sensor and the expansion vessel connection pipe. This practice was also evident of the original part as the cut holes were a bit shoddy. Anyway to avoid drilling into something I shouldn't I simply detached the pump head and fitted to the original pump gasket.

So to summarise old pump gasket, new pump head, problem still remains.

Any advice on what the issue maybe?

Anthony

 

[hertsboilers]

Did you resolve the problem to this?

A Boiler engineer suggested it maybe a pump issue so I had it swapped over. This has not fixed the problem.

After lock out the error indicator lights suggest a "Lack of burner ignition (no ignition signal from the full sequence ignition device)". However the ignition device is working as it can be seen through the viewing window.

So could this be a PCB issue? The engineer that came round did suggest that these brand of boilers are notorious for PCB failures.

Oh and I'll mention straight away, I have no intention or entering the combustion chamber or any of bit that maybe detrimental to my health.

Thank you in advance.

Anthony

PS here is a little video showing information about the boiler and what is occurring. Sorry it's a bit blurry!

It has got its sparking, so suggest to check the followings by employing a RGI: 1. igniation electrode, 2. Gas valve, and 3. PCB.

 

[Anthony Cook]

Thank you for the reply.

I've bypassed the first 2 points on your list because I'm not qualified (or skilled enough) to attempt it. Although by gas valve do you mean the blue handled tap under the boiler? If so that is in the on position and I know I've got gas (and not been cut off for some reason) because the cooker hob works fine.

I'm crossing my fingers for a PCB fault. I just wish carbon monoxide wasn't so poisonous lol

 

[Agile]

I would say there are many possible causes and almost all need an RGI to investigate.

What you have bought is NOT an original Biasi spare part. Its a grey import part that happens to fit, at least with a small modification to the plastic veloute. Although just the pump head is the part which would have been needed had that been at fault. The £140 would have been the price of a genuine Biasi part.

I have seen some of those being sold where the pump does not actually fit and had been roughly filed on the centre of the impeller.

Tony

 

[Anthony Cook]

I've replaced the PCB and everything works fine now, managed to get a re-conditioned one for £60 those things aren't cheap!

 

[Agile]

Well I am glad that my distance diagnosis was in fact correct.

However the only place to properly diagnose a boiler fault is at the boiler where additional texts can easily be made.

Those "reconditioned" PCBs are not reconditioned but just repaired. The slight problem is that the repairer will not be able to test them under all conditions but only the main ones of running the boiler.
With recent models they can be quite good value but be aware that if buying one for an older model the repaired PCB could easily be 10 years old.