Big bang v creation.

You can believe in God without following the biblical scriptures. The events aren't related. Just because some people from the Bronze Age decided to give God a personal identity doesn't change the unknowable nature of god.
Agnosticism is the only sane viewpoint.
 
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I understand that but without the guide book I don't see what it is you have faith in? You seem to be saying that your faith is that the universe started once and now everything exists. How do you answer questions about god. Do you believe god is good. How do you know the universe isn't some evil experiment.
 
Einstein and me agree:


"Your question [about God] is the most difficult in the world. It is not a question I can answer simply with yes or no. I am not an Atheist. I do not know if I can define myself as a Pantheist. The problem involved is too vast for our limited minds. May I not reply with a parable? The human mind, no matter how highly trained, cannot grasp the universe. We are in the position of a little child, entering a huge library whose walls are covered to the ceiling with books in many different tongues. The child knows that someone must have written those books. It does not know who or how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child notes a definite plan in the arrangement of the books, a mysterious order, which it does not comprehend, but only dimly suspects. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of the human mind, even the greatest and most cultured, toward God. We see a universe marvelously arranged, obeying certain laws, but we understand the laws only dimly. Our limited minds cannot grasp the mysterious force that sways the constellations. I am fascinated by Spinoza's Pantheism. I admire even more his contributions to modern thought. Spinoza is the greatest of modern philosophers, because he is the first philosopher who deals with the soul and the body as one, not as two separate things."
 
I agree to a point. The universe and it's beginning is completely beyond our comprehension. But I'm still struggling to see any connection with anything we might call god and even if there was a connection what tells us this is something good that we should worship and have faith in.
 
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Why are you giving 'god' human attributes? The book was written by Bronze Age people. Which other Bronze Age books do you quote from?
 
I'm not giving god human attributes. I'm trying to understand what prompts you to worship a god that you don't know exists. You agree that the universe and its beginning is unknown and beyond our comprehension but that implies that any kind of god is also unknown and beyond our comprehension. So what is it that people worship and pray to, and why do they worship it and how do they know worshipping is the right thing and brings any benefit?
 
Joe, at present, humans are a bit like the ants running around a nuclear reactor... really impressive communication skills, telling other ants where food is, helping each other as a society to defend a nest from predators etc.

But they have no conception of how the concrete they live in was made or where it came from... no sense of being on a planet, no sense of where the huge sounds, smells, flashes emminate from.
And especially they have no knowledge about nuclear reactors....

So run this thing on a few million years.... these ants might start to get a bit curious... and will want to name these wonderful things they can't explain... and I suspect they'll use ant language to call it god !!!!

Now compare the human race... running round like a bacteria on a little pebble sitting in a much bigger place, incomprehensible using our current knowledge..... and it'll be another million years (which humans won't survive) before we understand the reactor we're living near!

Well that's my interpretation of the situation you fill with a god and a virgin birth and a burning bush and a snake and miracles, and prophets marrying 9 years olds and flying on a winged horse, and a god that looks like an elephant etc etc......
 
I'm not giving god human attributes. I'm trying to understand what prompts you to worship a god that you don't know exists. You agree that the universe and its beginning is unknown and beyond our comprehension but that implies that any kind of god is also unknown and beyond our comprehension. So what is it that people worship and pray to, and why do they worship it and how do they know worshipping is the right thing and brings any benefit?

I'm agnostic. I believe there must be something (as Einstein did) but don't know what it is. Dogs don't understand chess. Humans don't understand the universe - but it doesn't mean there isn't a reason that is beyond our comprehension.
 
Joe, at present, humans are a bit like the ants running around a nuclear reactor... really impressive communication skills, telling other ants where food is, helping each other as a society to defend a nest from predators etc.

But they have no conception of how the concrete they live in was made or where it came from... no sense of being on a planet, no sense of where the huge sounds, smells, flashes emminate from.
And especially they have no knowledge about nuclear reactors....

So run this thing on a few million years.... these ants might start to get a bit curious... and will want to name these wonderful things they can't explain... and I suspect they'll use ant language to call it god !!!!

Now compare the human race... running round like a bacteria on a little pebble sitting in a much bigger place, incomprehensible using our current knowledge..... and it'll be another million years (which humans won't survive) before we understand the reactor we're living near!

Well that's my interpretation of the situation you fill with a god and a virgin birth and a burning bush and a snake and miracles, and prophets marrying 9 years olds and flying on a winged horse, and a god that looks like an elephant etc etc......

The bottom line is that finite being will never understand infinity, eternity etc. Therefore you either believe that all life is a useless, has no reason, a waste of time - or you believe there IS a reason, it's not a waste of time, in the fullness of time we will understand what that reason is. Take your pick.
 
So you're agnostic? which I get... because it's a big question mark we live in...

My problem is when people make things up to worship.... and it's the W word that ruins everything for me... because it supercedes respect for other humans !!!
 
But if they are only recognising that there must be a reason to life and celebrating whatever provided it - why does that bother you?
 
But if they are only recognising that there must be a reason to life and celebrating whatever provided it - why does that bother you?


ermm because a couple of billion of them think I should die for not believing..

That irks me somewhat !!
 
We all think that about you. :mrgreen:

You see joe, personally I couldn't give 2 billion fooks about what you just said..

but for the sake of this site, you're strutting round like a knob!!!


You have some decent ideas, yet you keep resorting to insults !!!
 
27 God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

So god is a bloke floating around in space,smoking a cig,drinking a beer .Where did god come from then?
 
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