Blocked toilet/ drain problem.

[dannynolan]

@Wayners I have to say that if the AAV has stuck closed, I would normally expect the vacuume created by the flush to be more than sufficient to draw the water out of any sink traps emptying into the same soil stack, so you'd just get a bad stink from the sink, and the loo would still work.
So there must be something a little unusual in the setup in that case. Anyway, as you say, swapped and sorted.

@dannynolan Do you know exactly how/where the upstairs loo soil stack and downstairs loo soil pipe tee into each other? I assume your photo is a sewer inspection chamber downstream and if both empty out of that one pipe, you'd hope that the builders put a small access chamber upstream where the tee is. That is certainly the case at our house both front and back.

Many thanks for that, much appreciated, we are out today. We had the pipes replaced 12 years ago and will post pictures of the exact layout this evening.

@YorkshireMidge

The upstairs toilet used to vent through roof but was cut off and a AAV fitted. Run fine for years but then the toilet would fill with water and not drain away.
Downstairs toilet didn't have any vent and didn't ever have trouble.
I still can't understand how the upstairs toilet blocked because of a faulty vent.
Anyway swapped and all good.

On a side note. 3 plumbers came out plus the waterboard several times over a 3 year period and not one mention soil vent or lack of one being visible. Crazy. I cut out boxing and swapped AAV and all good.

Also waterboard said they run rods through drains and cleared blockage. I don't think there ever was one

Many thanks for that, much appreciated, we are out today. We had the pipes replaced 12 years ago and will post pictures of the exact layout this evening.

 

[dannynolan]

I've added two pictures showing the pipe layout, this work was done twelve years ago because of tree root ingression through a break in the pipe due to an old bodge job. Due to space restrictions they couldn't install an inspection point between the downstairs toilet and where it connects to the stack. If as we suspect, the blockage is in the waste pipe between the downstairs toilet and where the pipe joins the stack what would be your suggestion.

Many thanks again.

 

[Stuckinarut]

Looking at that layout and type of pipe I would say the blockage is after the toilet. Perhaps it even needs the pan out. Has anyone flushed something they shouldn’t, a rim block for instance?

 

[dannynolan]

Looking at that layout and type of pipe I would say the blockage is after the toilet. Perhaps it even need the pan out. Has anyone flushed something they shouldn’t, a rim block for instance?

Thanks for the reply, we don't use rim blocks, our plumber told us the pipe run is shallow so we are careful, though we do have guests. I used a six foot toilet snake and found nothing so the blockage is beyond the u-bend, but you're suggesting the blockage is inside the house so to speak.

 

[Stuckinarut]

I used a six foot toilet snake and found nothing so the blockage is beyond the u-bend

Could have got unlucky and just gone past whatever is the cause

but you're suggesting the blockage is inside the house so to speak.

Yes, possibility

 

[YorkshireMidge]

From the photos, if you rod from the inspection chamber end, it looks like the rod (and/or camera) will tend to go up the soil stack towards the upstairs loo due the type of junction pipe used. To get it to go up the branch to the downstairs loo, you'd need an attachment for the end of the rods that is like a slightly curved flexi tube - and even if such a thing exists (I haven't found anything like that - the pros might know) it's still a bit hit and miss whether you could encourage it to go up the right branch.

So you may have to remove the pan and rod from the toilet end as @Stuckinarut suggests - but given you don't yet know what the blockage is, you'd need to weigh up the risk of inadvertently moving it downstream and potentially blocking both loos.

Is the inspection chamber the thing that is visible in the bottom right hand corner of the Toilet 1 photo? - if so, at least it isn't too far to rod right through if necessary.

Ref. what I said previously about pipe volume, I think the blockage is probably a bit further than your toilet snake will go - but with the pan removed, you'll get a bit further with that so worth another go.

 

[dannynolan]

Again thanks for your reply. Barring a pipe collapse, the blockage is almost certainly just toilet paper, nothing else goes down it. We agree with you that we have to approach it from the toilet end. And you're right, that is the inspection chamber in the bottom rh corner of toilet 1.

re the toilet snake, there is a hire place near us does a rothenberger r600 - worth a go?

 

[Nige F]

must be worth hiring the rothy 600, take pan out - you don't want to mark the porcelain

 

[YorkshireMidge]

Again thanks for your reply. Barring a pipe collapse, the blockage is almost certainly just toilet paper, nothing else goes down it. We agree with you that we have to approach it from the toilet end. And you're right, that is the inspection chamber in the bottom rh corner of toilet 1.

re the toilet snake, there is a hire place near us does a rothenberger r600 - worth a go?

Visitors might not be as careful/sensible as you

I'd get the pan out first, and try whatever kit you have again. You said originally "We have rods with a plunger on the end" so what exactly do you have?

The Rothy is an expensive bit of kit so won't be cheap to hire, and it's not as if you have a long pipe run in this case - so if it was me, I'd be tempted to see if there is a cheap unblocking device you can buy that will get you all the way to the inspection chamber. It can't be much more than 6-7M by the look? If it won't clear, a USB boroscope (tiny camera on a cable) can be had for under a tenner off ebay or Amazon and you could tape it to the device and see if you can get a look at what it might be.

At least you have it for the future too.

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

Given it seems only the Downstairs affected, I'd say the issue could well be on the joint marked, where new and old connect. Any idea how that joint was made?



For what its worth, I'd think it very unlikely to be root ingress, at least in the new pipework section anyway.

 

[YorkshireMidge]

Given it seems only the Downstairs affected, I'd say the issue could well be on the joint marked, where new and old connect. Any idea how that joint was made?

For what its worth, I'd think it very unlikely to be root ingress, at least in the new pipework section anyway.

...agree and that joint looks like its a bend judging by its position.

 

[dannynolan]

Visitors might not be as careful/sensible as you

I'd get the pan out first, and try whatever kit you have again. You said originally "We have rods with a plunger on the end" so what exactly do you have?

The Rothy is an expensive bit of kit so won't be cheap to hire, and it's not as if you have a long pipe run in this case - so if it was me, I'd be tempted to see if there is a cheap unblocking device you can buy that will get you all the way to the inspection chamber. It can't be much more than 6-7M by the look? If it won't clear, a USB boroscope (tiny camera on a cable) can be had for under a tenner off ebay or Amazon and you could tape it to the device and see if you can get a look at what it might be.

At least you have it for the future too.

We're trying to avoid taking the pan out but if needs must. Our rods have a 10cm rubber plunger on the end, but we would buy a pigs tail/ worm screw attachment. And thanks for all the other suggestions, we'll look into it all over the weekend.

 

[dannynolan]

Given it seems only the Downstairs affected, I'd say the issue could well be on the joint marked, where new and old connect. Any idea how that joint was made?

View attachment 377535

For what its worth, I'd think it very unlikely to be root ingress, at least in the new pipework section anyway.

Don't know how the joint was made. The pipework it goes into was replaced about fifteen or so years ago. Thanks for your opinion on the roots, we feel the same, despite Dynorob! being 90% certain that was the issue.

 

[YorkshireMidge]

We're trying to avoid taking the pan out but if needs must. Our rods have a 10cm rubber plunger on the end, but we would buy a pigs tail/ worm screw attachment. And thanks for all the other suggestions, we'll look into it all over the weekend.

Just a little warning. When I was looking into trying to sort my problem out myself (which of course would have been futile given what had actually happened), I was looking at rodding kits - but there are some cheap and sh*tty ones that might well add to the sh*t already there.

Take the set Argos flog for £22 (alarm bells should already be ringing!) code 265/8302 as an example - where there are loads of 1* reviews where people have reported the rods are very brittle and readily snap, and even cases where people have had to get the pros in anyway to get the broken rods out. Its clear these are not suitable for rodding around a bend - so if your rods fall into that category, then probably best to rent something decent or get a well rated pro in - as you're going to hit your first bend within a couple of foot below the loo, and your blockage is clearly well beyond that. Either that or restrict the use to trying the plunger on the vertical pipe.

As an aside, this is what I meant by the USB boroscope as I'm just about to use it to look inside a dry lined wall. It's about 6mm diameter with a circle of tiny LEDs, and mine has a 5M long cable. The black box has a button to take a snapshot and there is also a little thumb wheel to control the brightness. I originally bought mine to drop down a riser when tracing where a pipe went, but it has come in very useful on many other occasions since. Only snag is the LEDs aren't as bright as my photo suggests.

Good luck.