board or plaster?

[johnheritage]

Funny you should say that, because I ended up getting my 60 year old + mum to hold it and... ta da.... it's up. It's all about co-ordination and care, with some effort.

I've used a clampable prop before and done them on my own, and was going to get one, but figured it wasn't worth the money for just two boards.

I used the thru fixings tonight.

Richard is correct that the best time to get those in would be as it hits the firm but not off stage.

My DnD was clearly not holding tight when I drove them in with it 100% set. So it's now acting as a shim in my opinion, and will be getting quite a few fixings through it.

You can tap on the boards with a pen to find the solid spots - pens work better than knuckles.

The boards transmit the drilling too rigidly and cracks it free of the DnD easily - specially with the hammer on near the sides.

You also need to use the correct sized bit!

I have a bunch so I tried 7mm on anchors that suggested 8mm, too tight. I did so because some of the 8mm holes were a bit loose for my liking.

I would suggest you switch your hammer off when going through the board it's self, as the AquaPanel tend to countersink themselves, in quite a bad way, with the hammer on - the fixing will go clean through the board as it does up.

I also bought a Hardiboard and (from my experience of one board), I prefer those. The aquapanels are kind of like loose, flaky aggregate and that webbing is there to keep it consolidated.

The hardi's are so fine grain, they don't need it. The surface is smooth as a baby's bottom. Little bit longer to cut. Haven't tried putting anything other than drywalls thru it, but I suspect it'd produce a nicer finish with the thru fixings too.

The Aqua's are more like chipboard, whereas the Hardi's are more like MDF.

 

[johnheritage]

Thinking about this, I should have really used green MR for the whole room, since I plan to tank it anyway - that would have saved a fair bit on the cement boards.

I would also suggest caution following that bit of advice I gave on SBR, as I remembered it stands for STYRENE butadiene rubber.

A lot of products (glues) proudly claim "Styrene free" and the SBR I have states "For external use". I don't know what the issue with styrene is (was going to ask in another thread), but I am wary that it may be something to do with toxic fumes when it burns.

Also been having a read of some other forums about skimming over the boards to get them as flat as possible. Rapidset & Ardex AM100 are being suggested over standard plaster / cement skims, they dry in a few hours and don't overload the boards with weight; apparently. But they are both basically fast curing cements / mortars, probably with various admixes like accelerators and something to give them more flex. According to the packs, they'll hold whether the skim is going from a feather edge or 1" fill (hmmmmm.... we'll see about that.... )

Morning coffee and marlboro done, this cowboy is off to mix more drywall.

 

[Micilin]

Exactly right on the 'knack' being the key.

Boarders could always throw up ceilings on their own, their only aid usually being a woolly hat - no prop or dead man just a hop up and half a dozen nails in their gob.

I remember some who also had a roll up stuck to their lip as well!

However, it's a very good way to do your back , a lot of twisting and turning with an awkward weight so if you can, get a mate.

 

[Richard C]

Thinking about this, I should have really used green MR for the whole room, since I plan to tank it anyway - that would have saved a fair bit on the cement boards.

If it’s a conventional bath/shower room MR board is OK in wet areas as long as you tank it; personally I always use cement board without tanking, it’s easier & cheaper. A wet room is a different matter.

I would also suggest caution following that bit of advice I gave on SBR, as I remembered it stands for STYRENE butadiene rubber.
A lot of products (glues) proudly claim "Styrene free" and the SBR I have states "For external use". I don't know what the issue with styrene is (was going to ask in another thread), but I am wary that it may be something to do with toxic fumes when it burns.

SBR based primers do have a use for priming certain surfaces or as an additive so I think your concerns are unfounded. TBH the amount in a priming coat isn’t going to be significant but, if there is a fire, hold your breath & run as you would do normally.

Also been having a read of some other forums about skimming over the boards to get them as flat as possible. Rapidset & Ardex AM100 are being suggested over standard plaster / cement skims, they dry in a few hours and don't overload the boards with weight; apparently. But they are both basically fast curing cements / mortars, probably with various admixes like accelerators and something to give them more flex. According to the packs, they'll hold whether the skim is going from a feather edge or 1" fill (hmmmmm.... we'll see about that.... )

You don’t need to visit other Forums to get that advice . If you visit the Tiling Forum, where I seem to spend most of my time now, you will see I bang on about this regularly & recommend either a Rapiset cement addy (but make it a decent one) or a specialist rapidset screed (expensive) for repairs if time is an important factor.

 

[johnheritage]

I was down at Who's Gay? (Hews Gray) this noon and found some cemtone that was labeled tanking slurry and got all excited. On the back, it says it's vapour permeable.

What bothers me about that, is I'm insulating and foaming between the timber (not in the wet area) and the cement boards are on brick, so I can't use a barrier behind there.

I was worried about vapour going through that slurry and rotting the timber / going into the brick if I didn't use a true barrier over the boards.

I thought I'd make this thread more interactive and include some pictures. I even did some tests on the hardi board I have and confirmed my guess about drilling.

Hardi's and Aquas are about the same price.

Check it out... YO!

An Aquapanel. Note the grainy structure and webbing used to keep it together

A Hardiboard. No real grain structure, no webbing needed. Are these treated saw dust bonded with cement? They're so like MDF in terms of grain and cutting.

No matter which method I tried, I found it virtually impossible to prevent this happening. The board is breaking out around the fixing. Badly enough that the tops of the push throughs will go through the board. The screw head is the same size as the top of the sleeve, so once the top of the sleeve is through, the screw head has no chance.

The Hardiboard. The hole is absolutely perfect. The board began to smolder with the heat, suggesting these do have something like sawdust in them as the bulking agent.

Having spent around £30-40 on the push thru fixings and Hews Gray being closed, I found quite a few of them weren't fixing tightly enough for my liking. About 25% of the Aquapanel fixings needed redrilling before the fixing ever went in because the hole was way over it's diameter. And about 25% of the ones that didn't go through the board, didn't grip as tightly as I wanted them to. I decided to go rogue on it and try some 6x60-80mm? screws with brown plugs. Suprise suprise, they work beuautifully. BETTER than the hammer throughs. They bite easily tight enough, the bigger screw head countersinks it's self flush with the board. The difference was so great, I was considering redoing all the push thrus, but the cost of them and the noise complaints and need to get moving with it made me skip that (I will regret that if the tiles pop off within a year, but oh well.... not me doing the complaining about noise).

Twang-ga-ang.... not bad for a saw with most of it's teeth missing

Good enough for THEM. Considering the last time I broke out a spirit level (sanding the floors) I got a telling off for trying to get it too perfect.... ho hum....

WHAT NOISE!?!?! Thanks for the help Richard!