its is something you pick up as you go along. I have been gas fitting for approx 9 years now and about 4 of thoses going to college. You never stop learning especially in our game as the technology is moving as fast as we are learning the old technology. Just get yourself on some courses and keep going on these courses to try and keep up.
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some people think getting corgi registration is the " be all & end all, " i often hear "new fitters " boasting in the merchants about their newly aquired badge of office & they think they know it all because they have paid their money for some six week course done in some grubby little unit somewhere with some instructor filling their heads with tales of get rich quick.
Well lads, let me tell you this, there is no short cut to gain experience, it comes with time, i`ve been in the gas / plumbing game 24 years now & i`m still learning things.
It strikes me people want to learn everything yesterday, i did a five year apprentiship but it seems they have turned in to five minute apprentiships nowdays !
All i can say is "don`t run before you can walk ! "
Well lads, let me tell you this, there is no short cut to gain experience, it comes with time, i`ve been in the gas / plumbing game 24 years now & i`m still learning things.
It strikes me people want to learn everything yesterday, i did a five year apprentiship but it seems they have turned in to five minute apprentiships nowdays !
All i can say is "don`t run before you can walk ! "
You can learn fast if you keep asking questions. Key is to find the right people, especially at the manufacturer's help lines. Some of them are useless, but some at the same company can be wonderful. If it's a quieter time and you can get them to talk around a subject you get lots of details. Write them down - I've got hundreds of files of useful bits of info cos I forget otherwise.
Eg Suprimas lock out, right? Been replacing boards for years, yeah yeah. But on one call I found out that if you suspect the thermistor, disconnect it and the boiler should fire. It isn't clever enough to do a range check on the resistance. Write that down! Same call: suppose you arrive at a suprima and it's locked out. How do you know if it's because it overheated?? Look at the pump output - it leaves the pump on forever if it overheats, even when it's cooled. That's not in the manual either.
Then if you get someone honest, he'll tell you what else to look for, if you ask, like early suprima HT leads, intermittent overheat stats...
Edit: I should add that under NO circumstances should a boiler be allowed to run with sensors disconnected or otherwise interfered with.
Eg Suprimas lock out, right? Been replacing boards for years, yeah yeah. But on one call I found out that if you suspect the thermistor, disconnect it and the boiler should fire. It isn't clever enough to do a range check on the resistance. Write that down! Same call: suppose you arrive at a suprima and it's locked out. How do you know if it's because it overheated?? Look at the pump output - it leaves the pump on forever if it overheats, even when it's cooled. That's not in the manual either.
Then if you get someone honest, he'll tell you what else to look for, if you ask, like early suprima HT leads, intermittent overheat stats...
Edit: I should add that under NO circumstances should a boiler be allowed to run with sensors disconnected or otherwise interfered with.
Dont get too excited by what Chris has said!
I know from helping trainees that its very difficult to "teach" someone the mental processes used in deducing faults.
Chris and I, had a head start because we have electronics experience which is essential in most cases.
The manufacturers courses are generally of little help because they are for their current models which you will not see for two years until they are out of warranty. The one exception is the Ravenheat as long as John Wilson is still running it. When I went on it the Owner Louis came in to welcome us and looked round the room and pointed to me and said "I know you! "
No one has even tried to answer my question on my first posting on this topic!
Learning boiler fault finding needs time and application after an understanding of electronics has been grasped. I always say three years to have a good chance of finding most faults.
Tony
I know from helping trainees that its very difficult to "teach" someone the mental processes used in deducing faults.
Chris and I, had a head start because we have electronics experience which is essential in most cases.
The manufacturers courses are generally of little help because they are for their current models which you will not see for two years until they are out of warranty. The one exception is the Ravenheat as long as John Wilson is still running it. When I went on it the Owner Louis came in to welcome us and looked round the room and pointed to me and said "I know you! "
No one has even tried to answer my question on my first posting on this topic!
Learning boiler fault finding needs time and application after an understanding of electronics has been grasped. I always say three years to have a good chance of finding most faults.
Tony
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Tony is right, IMO most manufacturers courses are selling seminars and the practical training seems to be cobbled together.
not all of em mind but most.
when i started out (from a plumbing background) I obtained as many manufacturers tech help line numbers and manuals as i could.
through tech helplines i soon pick up on resistance values and other such arcane electronic stuff
just remember to not to let anyone flummox or distract you and take your time, if you company starts riding your back over the time you are taking maybe they are not a great firm to work for!
One thing letting an inexperianced lad fall in the deep end quite another to hassle him as if he had been fault finding for years.
not all of em mind but most.
when i started out (from a plumbing background) I obtained as many manufacturers tech help line numbers and manuals as i could.
through tech helplines i soon pick up on resistance values and other such arcane electronic stuff
just remember to not to let anyone flummox or distract you and take your time, if you company starts riding your back over the time you are taking maybe they are not a great firm to work for!
One thing letting an inexperianced lad fall in the deep end quite another to hassle him as if he had been fault finding for years.
If the senario is right then my trainees do the fault finding on their own for the first 10-15 minutes until I get fed up with an obvious fault.
Sending them on their own does focus their mind and it also reminds them that they are not as clever as they thought they were!
The best manufacture course for usefulness that I ever went on was the Ideal Response because it was by a service engineer who was totally open and honest about the boiler!
The worst was Vokera. First, I had to move my car 1/2 mile away and park it in a very dogey street so that the owner could park his Rolls! I nearly told him what I thought of him and have never fitted one of their boilers since. Second, the trainer was an ex BG guy who knew little about boilers and even less about Vokera boilers. He had only been there for six months. Its always better to have an ex-service engineer.
Tony
Sending them on their own does focus their mind and it also reminds them that they are not as clever as they thought they were!
The best manufacture course for usefulness that I ever went on was the Ideal Response because it was by a service engineer who was totally open and honest about the boiler!
The worst was Vokera. First, I had to move my car 1/2 mile away and park it in a very dogey street so that the owner could park his Rolls! I nearly told him what I thought of him and have never fitted one of their boilers since. Second, the trainer was an ex BG guy who knew little about boilers and even less about Vokera boilers. He had only been there for six months. Its always better to have an ex-service engineer.
Tony
The main thing with me is diverter valves. The fella I used to work with wasnt the best for asking questions, he didnt seem to want to share his knowledge so I didnt really get to learn as much as I would have liked from him.
It just seems that every boilers (manufacturer) diverter valve seems to work differently. Where could I find out more info on the working of diverter valves?
It just seems that every boilers (manufacturer) diverter valve seems to work differently. Where could I find out more info on the working of diverter valves?
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Dont give up son?. I feel sorry for you as you sound very keen to learn.
I can only explain the Baxi/Potterton range combis in simple terms.
There are two types of diverter valves. The first is a mechanically operated valve powered by a motored diverter head (just like a normal y plan system). Either switches to hot water or heating depends on what is being called for.
The second one found on the SPA combis is a hydraulic three way valve. These have diaphragms in that are connected to push rods which operate microswitches to fire the boiler up. They work off a pressure differental valve in hot water mode and in heating mode its the pump
As i say this is only in basic terms. The next time you replace one take it home and strip it down or blow through the inlets and push the rods down and see what happens.Look at the manufactures layout to get a understanding of what is happening and where the primary water is going.
Good luck. Experence does count as it breeds confidence.If a customer is watching you tell them that you will call them as soon as you have finished or tell them to make a cup of tea as your going to turn the water off..BE FIRM
Hope i have not confused you
This is a very common type of diverter, you'll find a lot. There are variations of this Giannoni design, another common one has the microswitch at the bottom end of the lower shaft.
The shaft goes UP when the tap's opened. One important bit which isn't very clear is that within the lowest threaded outlet, is a compression spring around the central axis which pushes the two dished discs up, to follow the upper shaft.
Any help?
The connections can twist around the central axis, so they suit individual boilers. There are three different orientation for the lower part, you'll see in the lists.
Here's one of them
The shaft goes UP when the tap's opened. One important bit which isn't very clear is that within the lowest threaded outlet, is a compression spring around the central axis which pushes the two dished discs up, to follow the upper shaft.
Any help?
The connections can twist around the central axis, so they suit individual boilers. There are three different orientation for the lower part, you'll see in the lists.
Here's one of them
and I thought they were simple!!!
You say it works on pressure differential on hot water but how? Is it water passing through pushing against a diaghram which then pushes the road againts the microswitch?
On the heating side, you say its activated by the pump, but how exactly? Sorry for all the questions
You say it works on pressure differential on hot water but how? Is it water passing through pushing against a diaghram which then pushes the road againts the microswitch?
On the heating side, you say its activated by the pump, but how exactly? Sorry for all the questions
mussolini's bloody revenge
LMAO
look that come out on way and they go back the same, just make sure that the water is off/drained, you have a bucket/bowl/tissue/dustsheet ready to catch the water you cannae get rid off. Turn off the sparks to the boiler. and TAKE YOUR TIME.
If it takes all day so what. the next time you will take half a day and so forth.
None of us (with the exception of the all seeing and knowing agile, and the nearly as all seeing and all unknowing chrisr) get surpirsed by stuff nearly ever day, and NONE of us know it all, and after 35 years on the job (no pun intended) neither will you
Its changing daily thats half the fun of it
relax, rest a while and enjoy it
LMAO
look that come out on way and they go back the same, just make sure that the water is off/drained, you have a bucket/bowl/tissue/dustsheet ready to catch the water you cannae get rid off. Turn off the sparks to the boiler. and TAKE YOUR TIME.
If it takes all day so what. the next time you will take half a day and so forth.
None of us (with the exception of the all seeing and knowing agile, and the nearly as all seeing and all unknowing chrisr) get surpirsed by stuff nearly ever day, and NONE of us know it all, and after 35 years on the job (no pun intended) neither will you
Its changing daily thats half the fun of it
relax, rest a while and enjoy it
With regard to tony's question about measuring current in the mains. I think he's looking for that the ammeter needs to be put in series and not in parallel as for Voltage measurement. Another way would be to use a current transformer (clamp meter).
Harry
Harry
I am rather surprised that no one has got it yet !
There must be some people with C&C 2391 reading this? With all the Part P hype, I thought it would have been obvious!
I will repeat with a clue!
"How do you measure the current IN the mains?"
Tony
There must be some people with C&C 2391 reading this? With all the Part P hype, I thought it would have been obvious!
I will repeat with a clue!
"How do you measure the current IN the mains?"
Tony
Yes - they vary a bit. Some use a venturi, though I can't think of an example offhand (apart from a gas operator in a water heater).
I'll leave others to go into it, I'm off on holiday.
Best thing I ever did was dismantle everything in an old combi which wasn't working at all, and get it going. It took me and the owner, also learning, absolutely hours over several days cos it had several faults, but we both learned a lot. (Vokera 20-80 turbo). SUggest you do the same if you can, or dismantle new bits. Dismantling dead combis dumped in Wickes car park can be illuminating too.
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