Bonkers price ranges for a drill right angle attachment

[Millwright]

At that price I'd probably chuck the idea.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

At that price I'd probably chuck the idea.

That wasn't an option

 

[Millwright]

That wasn't an option

Well I suppose there's another angle to it.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

I feel there is a significant difference between cordless tools and corded for some tasks. Cordless tools can do most things quite well these days (especially the brushless 18 volt and above stuff), but they can't handle extended periods of heavy work. So half a dozen holes a day with a 14mm bit in a cordless angle drill, no problem, but 100+ holes in a day and you'll find that stuff breaks, batteries go flat, tools and/or batteries overheat, etc, etc. So despite being someone who uses cordless tools for almost all his work, bulk angle drilling is one area where a good big 'un will beat a good little 'un almost every time

 

[Millwright]

Well it looks as though you've drilled down some of the things to consider.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

I think this topic has disappeared round the bend a bit and may be getting boring for some people.

 

[Millwright]

Not to worry, I'm sure we can sharpen the content.

 

[opps]

My set-up utilises a 1/2in keyed chuck (in point of fact a spare DW unit I had) which threads onto the front. I didn't want to use the original Rohm keyless chuck off the Bosch drill because like all keyless chucks it is longer than an equivalent keyed chuck - and when you are side drilling sistered joists in situ you tend to need every millimetre of space you can get.

It had never dawned on me that keyed chucks are shorter. Thanks for the heads up.

Err, nope. The one I bought requires a drill with a male threaded arbor mounting on the drill (1/2in UNC 20 tpi - the sort of de facto standard for 1/2in corded drills) and the drive is provided by a pair of hex nuts which need to be locked together on the drill's threaded arbor. It looks like this:

Ok, fair enough. The image that you linked to is the one that they indeed sell at FFX, the same unit- different (older?) image- is £147.99 at DM Tools.

So you wind your attachment on and use the provided nut as a limiter and then clamp it using the lever? I had mistakenly assumed that the inline part slotted in to the hex part of the spindle.

a 1/2in UNC shaft will take a lot more abuse than a 1/4in hex drive shank.

I understand your sentiment, but my 83(?)% cheaper attachment is rated at 110Nm Vs 100Nm for yours.

Lets assume that the gearing components are pretty much the same, the key difference seems to be the external thread on the business end of your attachment and the internal thread on the drill side.

I still cannot see why the price differentials are so high. Am I missing something? Yours has a slightly lower torque rating than my "similar" looking right angle attachment. Mine has a slot in the business side shaft and a hex receiver.

You may say that, but their response might be something along the lines of "if you need professional advice you should be talking to, and buying from, one of our dealers - who have staff trained to answer your queries".

Again, fair comment.. but why should a tradesman have to phone a dealer? I do not want to have a 10 minute conversation with someone that just repeats the (incomplete/inaccurate) blurb that I can read on the manufacturer's site?

I purchased a Metabo angle attachment to work with a new Metabo drill, an attachment that Metabo recommends for my drill - and part of the reason for purchasing that drill in the first place was the drill attachment. On the inner side of the drill box, it has a picture of the suitable attachments that I posted in post #10

At no point did the graphic say "you purchased our product, the right angle attachment - now you need to pay £70 for a quick release chuck that looks very much like the chuck, but is very slightly different and oh, by the way, the same chuck will which can be used directly on your drill shaft.

Apropos, technical support in store- I once went to Twickenham, and popped in the tool poooorrn heaven that is DM Powertools. They have a dealership contract with the Swedish company Nobex. When I popped in to ask if they had the 32TPI (Bi) metal cutting blade for my Nobex Champion, they tried to sell me the 32 TPI for wood- they didn't know that that the metal cutting blades existed.

In their defence, I suspect that Nobex may have discontinued the blade. I had previously used the same blades to (slowly) cut through stainless steel (2mm thick and 100mm tall).

 

[Deleted member 174758]

So you wind your attachment on and use the provided nut as a limiter and then clamp it using the lever?

Yes

I understand your sentiment, but my cheaper attachment is rated at 110Nm Vs 100Nm for yours.

Your attachment is designed for use with a cordless tool - that tool in turn is not capable of the continuous heavy duty work I required, because it would either overheat, or cook the batteries, or strain my wrist because the body is so short. You keep quoting torque figures at me, but will your drill generate that amount of torque continuously (as opposed to momentarily)? I have a fairly torquey main cordless drill, a Mak DHP481, and it is pretty robust, but after 20 or 30 large deep holes it does start to get hot, as do the batteries. Not good, but not untypical. GIven that most holes through materials such as pine joists don't actually need 110Nm of torque (unless, of course, you are in the habit of using 38mm QUOTE="opps, post: 5482552, member: 34439"]
Lets assume that the gearing components are pretty much the same, the key difference seems to be the external thread on the business end of your attachment and the internal thread on the drill side.

I still cannot see why the price differentials are so high. Am I missing something? Yours has a slightly lower torque rating than my "similar" looking right angle attachment. Mine has a slot in the business side shaft and a hex receiver.[/QUOTE]
I have no idea why the price differential, however as mine came to me in 2015 with a "Made in Germany" sticker, and Metabo have moved a lot of production to China in recent years, might that not be part of the answer? TBH at the time I bought mine I could not find a suitable alternative. Bear in mind that I akready had am 1100 watt heavy duty 2-speed drill, that there really weren't any viable cordless angle drills (I did own a Makita 18 volt cordless LXT angle drill back then) and that the one readily available, relatively affordable heavy duty angle drill, a Makita, was over £300. So Bosch and Metabo adaptors were really the only other game in town. And if you want to attach an angle head to a conventional corded drill they still are, although there are quite a few heavy duty cordless angle drills out there now, from DW, Milwaukee (the "Hole Hawg") and Makita:

(That's mine and it really was expensive, but with the handle set it will easily drive a 200mm earth auger, let alone any size wood auger through beams)

...why should a tradesman have to phone a dealer? I do not want to have a 10 minute conversation with someone that just repeats the (incomplete/inaccurate) blurb that I can read on the manufacturer's site?

Then maybe choose a better dealer (one who knows what he is talking about - difficult to find, I know. I made friends with the repair guy at one dealer I have used and he is a far better source of info because he repairs the stuff, butbisn't trying to sell me anything), or talk to the manufacturer, or his rep on trade shows.

Some things are never explained fully on web sites, for example, do you know what the difference is between a Makita DFS250 and a DFS452? And why it makes a difference? Most dealers don't, either and forget the Makita UK web site (Answer: the slower speed DFS250 is a higher torque variant aimed at the timber decking market and there is a DFS251 variant with a TEK nose piece which is aimed at the metal cladding/ roofing market and presumably is torque sensing as opposed to depth sensing, but I haven't looked that up). That gets even more complex when you start looking at multi-mose impact drivers (with various TEK modes, etc) as an alternative

BtW did you know that keyless chucks are invariably longer than their keyed equivalents or that they generally cannot take as much torque? (A look at dry diamond core drills would show that they are almost universally keyed chuck, and that the chuck is very high quality against any cordless chuck) And were you aware that 1/4in hex shanks can wind up and snap like carrots if over torqued? (I broke a few 1/4in hex bits learning that - enough to now avoid them for most purposes). And so on and so forth.

You wouldn't believe the amount of faffing about I had to do to source the correct Makita angle drill (above) - 18 volt LXT system, earth auger ready, with appropriate handles for both tasks. I may not have got it 100% right - I'll only know when the next big structural job comes along

 

[blup]

And were you aware that 1/4in hex shanks can wind up and snap like carrots if over torqued?

Ive had that with a lot of the bosch hex shank, but discovered the milwaukee shockwave hex shank hss bits which appear to be well engineered and robust in use.

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Blup

 

[Deleted member 174758]

OK, but a significant factor is that a 1/2in diameter shaft has about 3 times the cross section that a 1/4in diameter shank. I've yet to shear or snap a 1/2in shaft, but I've managed to snap maybe a half dozen 1/4in hex drive auger and spade bits, including some from Trend, Irwin and Makita. So I no longer trust anything with a 1/4in hex fitting for heavy work

 

[opps]

Yes


Your attachment is designed for use with a cordless tool - that tool in turn is not capable of the continuous heavy duty work I required, because it would either overheat, or cook the batteries, or strain my wrist because the body is so short. You keep quoting torque figures at me, but will your drill generate that amount of torque continuously (as opposed to momentarily)? I have a fairly torquey main cordless drill, a Mak DHP481, and it is pretty robust, but after 20 or 30 large deep holes it does start to get hot, as do the batteries. Not good, but not untypical. GIven that most holes through materials such as pine joists don't actually need 110Nm of torque (unless, of course, you are in the habit of using 38mm QUOTE="opps, post: 5482552, member: 34439"]
Lets assume that the gearing components are pretty much the same, the key difference seems to be the external thread on the business end of your attachment and the internal thread on the drill side.

I still cannot see why the price differentials are so high. Am I missing something? Yours has a slightly lower torque rating than my "similar" looking right angle attachment. Mine has a slot in the business side shaft and a hex receiver.

I have no idea why the price differential, however as mine came to me in 2015 with a "Made in Germany" sticker, and Metabo have moved a lot of production to China in recent years, might that not be part of the answer? TBH at the time I bought mine I could not find a suitable alternative. Bear in mind that I akready had am 1100 watt heavy duty 2-speed drill, that there really weren't any viable cordless angle drills (I did own a Makita 18 volt cordless LXT angle drill back then) and that the one readily available, relatively affordable heavy duty angle drill, a Makita, was over £300. So Bosch and Metabo adaptors were really the only other game in town. And if you want to attach an angle head to a conventional corded drill they still are, although there are quite a few heavy duty cordless angle drills out there now, from DW, Milwaukee (the "Hole Hawg") and Makita:

View attachment 305261

(That's mine and it really was expensive, but with the handle set it will easily drive a 200mm earth auger, let alone any size wood auger through beams)


Then maybe choose a better dealer (one who knows what he is talking about - difficult to find, I know. I made friends with the repair guy at one dealer I have used and he is a far better source of info because he repairs the stuff, butbisn't trying to sell me anything), or talk to the manufacturer, or his rep on trade shows.

Some things are never explained fully on web sites, for example, do you know what the difference is between a Makita DFS250 and a DFS452? And why it makes a difference? Most dealers don't, either and forget the Makita UK web site (Answer: the slower speed DFS250 is a higher torque variant aimed at the timber decking market and there is a DFS251 variant with a TEK nose piece which is aimed at the metal cladding/ roofing market and presumably is torque sensing as opposed to depth sensing, but I haven't looked that up). That gets even more complex when you start looking at multi-mose impact drivers (with various TEK modes, etc) as an alternative

BtW did you know that keyless chucks are invariably longer than their keyed equivalents or that they generally cannot take as much torque? (A look at dry diamond core drills would show that they are almost universally keyed chuck, and that the chuck is very high quality against any cordless chuck) And were you aware that 1/4in hex shanks can wind up and snap like carrots if over torqued? (I broke a few 1/4in hex bits learning that - enough to now avoid them for most purposes). And so on and so forth.

You wouldn't believe the amount of faffing about I had to do to source the correct Makita angle drill (above) - 18 volt LXT system, earth auger ready, with appropriate handles for both tasks. I may not have got it 100% right - I'll only know when the next big structural job comes along
[/QUOTE]

Yet again, I bow to your superior knowledge.

Admittedly, the figures I quoted were, presumably hard torque as opposed to soft torque. I get your point about prolonged use (heat/etc) though- I can't see myself needing to drill more than 6 holes at any given time.

I don't recall where my angle attachment was manufactured. The 18v drill was made in Germany, where as the 12v one was made in China.