Breach of Condition 3

[Notch7]

You might need to speak to a planning consultant, because this looks to me like the planning department have reasonable grounds to argue there is a breach.....you might need to start looking at compari g costs of fighting this with costs of redoing brickwork.

Unfortunately you only partially changed the brickwork, so some of the previous still exists.

You've use a multicoloured face brick which I would guess doesn't match the very original brick on the house nor the rest of the street.

When you changed the Facebook before the extension was started....was that actually permitted development - I don't know.

There is a fashion for houses being clad or rendered these days - I think that's PD, so maybe changing brick is too.

 

[mrrusty]

Hmm. I think that you have a problem. There was a condition "build it the same". Your photo shows a red brick gable and a partly faced front aspect with red brick still showing. I agree with @Notch7 - you probably need some advice from a planning consultant because this is not a clear cut situation. I agree the LA have reasonable grounds to argue a breach and you are either going to have to argue it isn't or put in an application to change the condition. Tricky.

Is it actually an enforcement notice? or a breach of condition notice? AFAIK only an enforcement notice can be appealed and you MUST get the appeal in within 28 days. I'm not sure of the procedure if you want to dispute a breach of condition notice.

some background reading https://www.gov.uk/guidance/appeals#Enforcement-appeal

 

[karlosmarshall]

I understand what you are saying and I do understand what the condition states the entire house is now in the new brick the red gable you can see on the photo is to be demolished that’s why it is not in the new brick as we are building a two story extension from what I have been told I do not need approval to reface the existing house with what ever we choose so we did choose that brick
in my opinion weather we chose this brick or rendered it it would still be completely different to what ever is in the local area but that is permitted development rights
And we refaced all the existing walls prior to building the extension my argument is if that was done first under permitted development then that now becomes the existing dwelling with a new facing brick so wouldn’t you build the extension to match that not the red brick as that is no longer the existing wall colour it has always been our intention to reface the existing dwelling we even had it drawn on the architect drawings for reference even if it had nothing to do with the planning side the other thing is if we are to reface the extension in a red brick then it will not match the existing dwelling as is now so surely that will become an issue especially when we have used a new brick on the original house under permitted development rights it doesn’t make sense I know that we just thought it should all be the same so went for it

 

[thomp1983]

Your next step is going to have to be to put in a retrospective application and await it's outcome then plan your next move from there.

Alot of the planning stuff is a tick box game and your brickwork now isn't what's on the original application so you need to do a retrospective application to get the tick.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

All we did is have are architectural drawings show that the existing dwelling will have a new leaf of brick work no wording or anything just shown on the drawings for reference
I still think the council should of at the very least looked at the drawings and asked the question as to what was meant buy the new leaf but obviously they do not look at the drawing to approve plans even if it is a permitted development as we were not asked anything about that side as it’s not part of the planning consent
I do understand what the enforcement are saying that are permission was granted with the condition that it be built to match the existing dwelling such as material texture and colour but surely if the existing house was refaced prior to building the extension then we are not wrong to do the extension in the same brick especially as the original brick was covered first and this is what there argument is about that the extension matches the original dwelling and in our opinion it dose as the existing brick walls have been replaced

Your photo says otherwise, it shows the existing walls as red brick.

BTW I'm pretty surprised that even got PP, I guess what makes a nice brick wall is in the eye of the beholder but I'm not really surprised they don't like the brickwork.

 

[^woody^]

Yes the concept is to match the existing so that outlandish extensions don't get tacked on.

However, the "existing dwelling" is that at the time of the application, as that is what the planners assess when viewing the proposal in context of what is there and what the decision is based on. If you wanted the alter the existing, you should have either done so before applying or included it on the application. So there are reasons why this needs to be, and applicants should not do what you have done.

You may need to reapply and add the cladding work.

And I suppose you don't want to hear about the requirements of Part L Building regulations when re-cladding an existing wall!

 

[thomp1983]

Sorry missed newer posts

 

[karlosmarshall]

We did have the new leaf of brick drawn on our approval drawings sent to the council but the council never asked what we were doing with the new leaf ect we just put it down to us not needing permission so they were not interested in the permitted development side only the planning side they could have looked at those drawings and ask us what materials we were going to be using but they never

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

You stated that 'the existing house was refaced prior to building the extension' but that's not the case is it?

How about if you post images of the existing and proposed drawings (with all personal detail/address redacted)?

 

[^woody^]

We did have the new leaf of brick drawn on our approval drawings

Thats not enough. You need to have applied for it as part of the application, not just put it on the drawings and hope for the best. The planners only assess what you are applying for, not scrutinise the drawings for maybes.

It comes down to your designer and their advice to you. If you had made them aware of the facts as detailed in this thread, then they should have made a suitable planning application or given you advice on what to do.

 

[karlosmarshall]

I stated correctly as We started building work on our orangery in 2016/2017 using the new brick this was also built under permitted development then all the footings and our cellar and extension footings and new facing brick wall footings we’re done at the same time we then began to build the new facade over the existing house walls from 2017 onwards we only began building the extension in 2020 as we had to put in steels and a block and beam floor first before building the walls so to answer that question yes we did start the refacing first the extension after and our architect said the same as we already new that we could change the existing walls under permitting development our interpretation of the planning condition may have been wrong but as we were always going to reface the existing dwelling under permitting development to witch we do not need to notify the planning about we just done the extension in the same brick as the house as it is now has a new face
for reference our new brick face is legal it’s the interpretation of the condition that is in question they do not state on the condition that the extension has to be built in the existing red brick only that it be built using the same colour texture and material of the existing dwelling to which with its new facing brick it is matching

 

[mrrusty]

It isn't us you need to convince. I think the consensus on here is that you are on somewhat dodgy ground, but not necessarily impossible. You need to go back to the planners and fight your corner. Doing nothing is not going to be an option. @^woody^ is correct (he usually is ) - the PP was given on the basis of how it was at the time. The planners would have seen a red brick gable and facing wall, so the permission was "approved provided it's in red brick". You'd probably have got away with a slightly different red brick, but changing to a multicolour buff brick is not what was approved. Whether it's worth the LA fighting if you appeal I don't know.

I don't think the "I've changed the existing under PD, so the PP gives me permission to match it" will fly. Just suppose you'd gone for pink render? would the PP have been OK for the whole extension to be in pink render?

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

I stated correctly as We started building work on our orangery in 2016/2017 using the new brick this was also built under permitted development then all the footings and our cellar and extension footings and new facing brick wall footings we’re done at the same time we then began to build the new facade over the existing house walls from 2017 onwards we only began building the extension in 2020 as we had to put in steels and a block and beam floor first before building the walls so to answer that question yes we did start the refacing first the extension after and our architect said the same as we already new that we could change the existing walls under permitting development our interpretation of the planning condition may have been wrong but as we were always going to reface the existing dwelling under permitting development to witch we do not need to notify the planning about we just done the extension in the same brick as the house as it is now has a new face
for reference our new brick face is legal it’s the interpretation of the condition that is in question they do not state on the condition that the extension has to be built in the existing red brick only that it be built using the same colour texture and material of the existing dwelling to which with its new facing brick it is matching

You did not finish changing all of the external wall surfaces of the existing house prior to commencing the extension so when you commenced building your extension you had both finishes existing on the house - correct?

 

[karlosmarshall]

I get that I’m not trying to convince anyone all I’m saying is the condition states that the extension is to match the existing dwelling no mention of red brick they should have stipulated that on the condition so we would not have chosen the new brick but as the new brick was used under permitted development we saw no problem in building the extension to match the house as is now that’s all I feel
Weather it’s right or wrong I believe anyone building a house would build the extension to match the house as it is in our case it just so happens it’s got a new facing brick if we are to change the extension brick now we would obviously be breaching the condition again as it will not match the house I believe it’s a no man’s land we have landed on as we have two conflicting problems 1 is we have a legally built new brick face on our existing house and 2 we are being told that we should build the extension in a red brick but not stated on our planning consent witch will not match the existing house so how on earth are we supposed to move forward if what we have already done is legal but not legal in respect of the extension they want us to build the extension to match the original house yet it won’t

 

[karlosmarshall]

No all the existing walls had been covered before building the extension