BT Wiring Question

[Paul_C]

Free up the pair and dacs someone else who doesn't want dsl.

Precisely. But according to Atilla, it isn't done.

 

[CEC]

I went back to the customer today. When I dialled 17070 I got the message that this service is not available. I tested for voltage across all the unused pairs on the incoming cable - all were dead. Stupidly I'd forgotten to take my mobile with me so I couldn't retest dialling the two distinct phone numbers.

I'm now heavilly leaning towards the two lines being provided on the single pair. Interestingly, the customer story has evolved slightly. Apparently, at one stage, both cottages telephones were working AND one of them had a working ADSL installation. Would this be possible over a single pair?

If the two numbers are run from the single pair of white/orange do I need a special piece of kit to split the second line from the pair or do I just connect the second line directly from them? IE, from this pic...

Untitled

• CEC
• 19 Nov 2009
• 1

do I just connect the outgoing pair for the second number to the same terminals as the white/orange?

Once again, thanks for all the help with this.

 

[Infidel]

Simples innit Its is amazing the ignorance of people about plant, most people have a dedicated pair of copper wires from their house back to the exchange no matter what the distance.
If the alarm guys think that the network and engineers are so crap why not transfer their business to the mobile network, after all you cant cut a signal.
Don't let the tosspot wind you up.

 

[Paul_C]

I'm now heavilly leaning towards the two lines being provided on the single pair. Interestingly, the customer story has evolved slightly. Apparently, at one stage, both cottages telephones were working AND one of them had a working ADSL installation. Would this be possible over a single pair?

No. The DACS system discussed above allows two lines (voice only, not ADSL) to work over a single pair of wires, but they are split into two independent lines again before ever reaching the NTE at the subscriber's installation (the DACS remote units which split the line into two again are some of those black boxes you see fixed on the top of telephone poles or on walls).

As far as the 4-pair cable entering the cottages is concerned, each pair can carry a single telephone line, or a single telephone line with ADSL on it. You can't have two distinct lines operating on the same pair where it's connected to the NTE, with or without ADSL.

So, you know you have one working line (whatever its number) with ADSL on the first pair (O/W). If all the other incoming pairs are dead, then the second line which the owner believes should be active has been disconnected somewhere outside the property, and it's down to BT (or whoever he pays for his service) to sort out.

 

[Lectrician]

CEC - Where in Devon are you?

You cannot 'split' the line yourself.

I would suggest asking the customer for copies of the bills - atleast you can then confirm there are/where seperate lines.

Nothing you can do from here TBH - If they have lost service in the cottages, and the cottages did have seperate numbers/accounts, it is defo a BT only issue.

The only thing I can possibly suggest would be BT call sign, different numbers causing a different ring tone. Some phones (very receny) can determine which ring tone and ring appropriately, or a normal phone can be used with a 'dongle' type 'switch' which detects the ring pattern. I would think the customer would be aware of this setup though as it is a very transparent kind of way to 'share' a line.

 

[Paul_C]

The only thing I can possibly suggest would be BT call sign, different numbers causing a different ring tone. {.....} I would think the customer would be aware of this setup though as it is a very transparent kind of way to 'share' a line.

And it wouldn't account for the fact that CEC saw ringing voltage across the active pair only for one number. With Call Sign service you'd see ringing voltage when dialing either number, just in a different cadence (the standard 0.4/0.2/0.4/2.0 sec. double-burst for the first number, and a 1.0/2.0 sec. single-burst ring for the second).

 

[Lectrician]

Yea, I forgot he had checked for ring current on the line when ringing numbers.

 

[plugwash]

What I wonder is why BT hasn't designed a DACs replacement with ADSL support.

 

[bernardgreen]

What I wonder is why BT hasn't designed a DACs replacement with ADSL support.

Be glad the copper loop designed for single speech phone service is able to carry ADSL into the house.

It would be possible to get 2 ADSL channels to a split point and there divide to and combine from two houses but the data rates would be very slow, dial modems could be almost as quick.

 

[Lectrician]

DACS where only meant to be a short time solution to a lack of line plant anyway!

 

[plugwash]

It would be possible to get 2 ADSL channels to a split point and there divide to and combine from two houses but the data rates would be very slow, dial modems could be almost as quick.

Why? if the box used the whole bandwidth of the line for a DSL link back to base then generated two DSL+Voice links to the customers I think it could give reasonable performance

If it can acheive 2 megabit/sec downstream and 512k upstream back to base (should be able to in most cases unless the line is REALLY ****) and it needs 64kbit/s in each direction for the two voice links that still leaves plenty of capacity to make the data service more than 10 times faster than dialup. Particulally if the box was smart enough to dynamically allocate bandwidth.

 

[CEC]

Some more info....

I've got the bills for the two cottages and there is definitely something strange.

Bill #1 is for the telephone number in the cottage that is working (with ADSL and BT home hub thing) for only £13.21 (£11.50 for "Unlimited Weekend Plan" and £1.71 is "Calling Feature Pack - Call Barring"), makes no mention of broadband and states that no calls were made on this line.

Bill #2 is for the number that is not working. It's for £73.50 all of which is for "BT Total Broadband Option 3".

 

[simonpolly]

Some more info....

I've got the bills for the two cottages and there is definitely something strange.

Bill #1 is for the telephone number in the cottage that is working (with ADSL and BT home hub thing) for only £13.21 (£11.50 for "Unlimited Weekend Plan" and £1.71 is "Calling Feature Pack - Call Barring"), makes no mention of broadband and states that no calls were made on this line.

Bill #2 is for the number that is not working. It's for £73.50 all of which is for "BT Total Broadband Option 3".

IF you have two bills there should be two numbers,which ever number you don`t have,ring up b.t and get them to line check it,if what you say is correct there should be a working line in each property which ever one is missing should test faulty.Easy as that.

 

[Atilla]

Simples innit Its is amazing the ignorance of people about plant, most people have a dedicated pair of copper wires from their house back to the exchange no matter what the distance.
If the alarm guys think that the network and engineers are so crap why not transfer their business to the mobile network, after all you cant cut a signal.

we did - long ago, got fed up of advising customers showing line fault to look outside for a ffng BT van.

 

[simonpolly]

Simples innit Its is amazing the ignorance of people about plant, most people have a dedicated pair of copper wires from their house back to the exchange no matter what the distance.
If the alarm guys think that the network and engineers are so crap why not transfer their business to the mobile network, after all you cant cut a signal.

we did - long ago, got fed up of advising customers showing line fault to look outside for a ffng BT van.

You are quick to slate B.T ,so why not stand up and be counted and tell us what perfect company you work for ATILLA go on i dare you