Builders built over man hole without doing a dig out. But they told us they had.

[Maple6]

Our extension was done in 2014. 3 metre extension on terrace property which had a drain running next to property. We were told they had to do a dig out and cover the man hole but when we recently replaced the decking with patio we discovered they did not do it.

We now have rodent issues which we think might be caused by this. Where do we stand legally? Can we claim against them after we have done the work?

I have just approached builder in question and told him. I will see what he says I suppose. Just wondering if there is a legal body who could help retrieve the money to rectify the problem.

 

[Notch7]

told they had to do a dig out and cover the man hole but when we recently replaced the decking with patio we discovered they did not do it

What does this mean?

Did they build over the drain when doing the extension?

I don’t see how you can rodent problems unless the drains were left open

 

[Maple6]

Well, I have been told it can cause a rodent problem. I know that a ‘build over’ is not legal since 2011. I just wanted advice on that really.

 

[noseall]

Well, I have been told it can cause a rodent problem. I know that a ‘build over’ is not legal since 2011. I just wanted advice on that really.

Permissions, inspections etc are the homeowners' responsibility.

As said, it's not clear what you are complaining about. If there is a lid on the IC, I don't see how this, on its own, can cause a rodent problem. Decking and say a bird feeder hanging above, certainly can.

 

[HERTS P&D]

The cause of your rodent issues is having decking.

Andy

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

Please explain everything! You say it was built over but discovered a problem when replacing the decking with paving?!?

Does the extension cover the chamber, or just the decking/paving?

Or is it under the extension but it's on stilts so you could see under it when you removed the decking?

Photos might be helpful.

You may have a claim against the builder, depending on what the drawings and contract state. If they don't exist then you probably don't.

 

[Maple6]

- House is 1930s terrace with floating floor. - Man hole used to be outside old kitchen door.
Extensions - 3 metre was built in 2014. This was built over the main drain which runs all the way along terrace houses on street.

Since 2011 you have to have a build over agreement ( with Thames water in our case) which I thought was completed but I don’t have paperwork.

Builders verbally told me that the man hole would be changed to covered drain and man hole would be moved to under decking.

Now we have moved decking and dug down to put in patio, we see this was not done.

Can we claim back the cost of this from builders? Estimated at £3k?

I spoke to this builder recently and he said ‘yes it will be there. We had to do it legally.’ But it isn’t there.

Rats may or may not be getting in from there. But rats aside, we HAVE to pay for the man hole to be moved or else we will get fined from Thames water or possibly have future problems if blocked in drain.

So stressed out by this right now ….

 

[Notch7]

House is 1930s terrace with floating floor. - Man hole used to be outside old kitchen door.
Extensions - 3 metre was built in 2014. This was built over the main drain which runs all the way along terrace houses on street.

Since 2011 you have to have a build over agreement ( with Thames water in our case) which I thought was completed but I don’t have paperwork.

Builders verbally told me that the man hole would be changed to covered drain and man hole would be moved to under decking.

So you live in a terrace and the sewer pipe runs along the back of the houses in a straight line.

You then built an extension 3 metres out, which went over the sewer.

You seem to be saying: the original manhole was changed to a “covered drain” (I guess you mean in extension)

But I don’t understand what you mean by “manhole moved to under decking” - what would that manhole do?

When the extension was built, what alterations were made to the drain runs?

By the way if the original house was suspended floor, what was the extension?


My question would be: did you get a building regulation final certificate? - if so, you must’ve had the drains inspected as part of the works. And usually building control would want a build over agreement if you build over a drain

Was the extension done under a full building regs plan checking application or on a building notice? Or were private inspectors doing it?

If somehow you’ve had an extension built over a public drain without a Thames water build over agreement, then you will be screwed if you ever want to sell.

Retrospective drain alterations are going to be expensive, £3k won’t touch the sides TBH. That’s if you can even make it work. You can’t really have inaccessible manholes under buildings unless there is suitable access for ridding or jetting….do yo7 have any other manholes

 

[Murdochcat]

This sounds like a bit of a mess and i can assure you that if your builders needed a build over agreement, it would have cost you a lot plus delays.

I know all about this as our original builders found an unmapped public surface water drain …… the costs were high AND we also had to have our foundations re designed - this took months to sort out and our BC officer was extremely involved too

Thames Water too

 

[noseall]

Builders verbally told me that the man hole would be changed to covered drain and man hole would be moved to under decking.

Folks are not getting this bit...?

An inspection chamber (IC) is positioned based upon drain junctions bends etc, that require future access. You don't just move an IC because it is in the way. Repositioning must be done with purpose, unless it is simply to serve as a rodding point etc.

We need to see either a photo or a plan or a doodled sketch so that we can see what or why the IC is meant to be doing in its old and new position.

 

[Notch7]

Folks are not getting this bit...?

An inspection chamber (IC) is positioned based upon drain junctions bends etc, that require future access. You don't just move an IC because it is in the way. Repositioning must be done with purpose, unless it is simply to serve as a rodding point etc.

We need to see either a photo or a plan or a doodled sketch so that we can see what or why the IC is meant to be doing in its old and new position.

Exactly.

there’s not enough information to offer any advice, as it stands it makes no sense

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

I'm guessing that when you say floating floor you actually mean suspended, i.e. joists and floorboards?

If it's a shared sewer running along the length of a terrace then you can't put a kink in it to move it further away. The pipe run needs to remain straight, if there were corners all over the place then it would block.

As far as I know, and I'm definitely not an expert, the options are to either put it further up- or down-stream alongside the extension (not possible if it's the full width of the house), or to keep it where it is and to allow access from within the room. E.g. a hatch in the floor with an airtight sealed chamber lid below it.

I don't know what would or wouldn't be permitted. It's possible you may be opening a can of worms if you start asking officials on how to deal with it.

Did you get planning permission and/or building control approval? Or did the "builder" say he'd take care of all this too?

 

[Maple6]

Yes sorry - I mean suspended floor.

I’ve been in touch with building control that we used but their final inspection certificate doesn’t mention drain.

Got in touch with Thames water - still waiting on that to see if application was made. being careful as yes it’s a can of worms.

Come to conclusion we will have to just get it done and pay for work.

Yes agreed. Man hope is replaced with covered pipe and then new man hole added outside. I understand the sewer has to stay.

On the rats: we lifted some tiles on the roof and there was a ruddy great hole! Found the access point! So we are assuming man hole has nothing to do with it. So need to get that done now. ‍

Thanks for the replies.