Building quotes - am I being unreasonable

[Ivor Windybottom]

There's next to no regulation in this country for trades. Just buy a van and advertise. I'm a keen DIYer, partly as I'm mean and not rich, but also because I always seem to find the clueless ones and end up thinking I could have done better myself with about the same level of effort after all the hassle of finding then supervising them.

I've come to a new skill, googled it for 30 minutes then heard people quoting saying things that I know are wrong just from what I've read.

Suspect there'll be plenty of leased premium-badged pickup trucks being sent back within the next year or so. But I've thought that for ages, somehow the economic plates keep spinning somehow. I was building in 2009, that really was a good time for buying.

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

£300 to move house PMSL! When was that - about 1982? Last time I moved it cost about £11750 inc stamp duty (£7500K) and removals. Searches alone are about £250.

Don't remember in detail. It was 2019. We did the bare minimum searches, think they were under £100. Didn't get a survey, didn't need a mortgage. But you've posted on the wrong thread anyway.

Fail to see how you could possibly dispose of almost £12k though, that's just downright incompetent. Someone must have been laughing at you.

There's no reason to pay an estate agent any more, definitely not for a percentage of the price. They don't actually do much, just find the cheapest way of getting onto Rightmove, which was £150 when I did it with some startup online agent.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

No that's the going rate buddy but yes wrong thread fail!

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

Going rate? For people who want to give their money away perhaps. Give me your £12k next time, I'll spend a grand and buy a Mini Cooper and hair gel with the profits.

I took the photos, wrote the blurb, did the viewings and negotiated. All the online agent did was act as a gateway to Rightmove/Zoopla.

I just checked, the one I used has gone bust. But there are loads around. Strike is free apparently, think they make their money from selling extras. Just say no and take their stupid service until they inevitably go bust too.

There's no reason why selling a house should cost thousands. You also don't need a solicitor for either buying or selling.

 

[dormermike]

The 12k was stamp duty wasn't it, so unless you're buying under threshold there is no way to spend it on a mini cooper instead.

In any case, its not building quotes related so please take your cooper back to the hair salon

 

[Wayners]

Builder trouble!
This shows some of the problems you can encounter. Don't make same mistake...

 

[dormermike]

Quick Q for those who know. I've heard guestimations for extensions as being around £2500 sqm for single storey extension.

Is that finished as in electrics, plaster etc, or just empty shell?

And,

Does that include any sort of demolition or breaking through from the main building, oooh, like if you were extending a room for instance?

Thanks.

Oh and post covid I imagine its more than £2500 in which case what's the current number - £7000?

 

[noseall]

Quick Q for those who know. I've heard guestimations for extensions as being around £2500 sqm for single storey extension.

Is that finished as in electrics, plaster etc, or just empty shell?

And,

Does that include any sort of demolition or breaking through from the main building, oooh, like if you were extending a room for instance?

Thanks.

Oh and post covid I imagine its more than £2500 in which case what's the current number - £7000?

£2.5k per, should buy you the finished article. It will depend on the content. Kitchens and bathrooms cost a lot per metre. Those houses with dated electric consumer units or knackered boilers, are going to cop for more dosh.

Lots of factors can influence.

 

[dormermike]

£2.5k per, should buy you the finished article. It will depend on the content. Kitchens and bathrooms cost a lot per metre. Those houses with dated electric consumer units or knackered boilers, are going to cop for more dosh.

Lots of factors can influence.

Thanks. Best quote I've had so far came in today at £3900 psqm and it's a 14sqm extension but does have a 35sqm conservatory to demolish, there are 3 velux windows in the new extension, and a steel required as we open the kitchen into it. On the flipside the conservatory foundations are being reused as is the floor slab as it was built to 900 depth and has 50mm celotex insulation.

Part of me thinks I should reuse the full base at this rate.

My architect says the 2.5k psqm only applies to new builds.

 

[johnny2007]

prior to getting a certified gas safe guy or gal or they/them in.

Are you the new Roy???

 

[^woody^]

I do have detailed docs. Both quotes are insanely priced. One is more insane than the other. I am seeking other quotes.

I am not sure i'd go with the cheapest in any case. What i've noticed with the responses so far is the devil is in the detail not just of what they say they are doing, but the list of exclusions and assumptions. Some of the items were deliberately left off, then you're into paying for their "ad hoc" fee structure. Seems like a win win for the builders.

I think you are missing the point of tendering/ getting quotes.

Fundamentally it is you the client that states what you want - in the form of detailed tender documents. And then it's for the builders to price the work you specify. No exclusions, no qualifications, no substitutions, purely the work you have specified in the way you want it built, to the time frames that you require.

It's that simple, and that is why you get prices based on the exact same work, and therefore all things being equal, the cheapest quote is the one to choose.

 

[kingandy2nd]

Wow, is it really £2.5k a sq m (roughly) to build now? Eek

 

[dormermike]

I think you are missing the point of tendering/ getting quotes.

Fundamentally it is you the client that states what you want - in the form of detailed tender documents. And then it's for the builders to price the work you specify. No exclusions, no qualifications, no substitutions, purely the work you have specified in the way you want it built, to the time frames that you require.

It's that simple, and that is why you get prices based on the exact same work, and therefore all things being equal, the cheapest quote is the one to choose.

Thanks. When you put it like that it sounds so simple. I guess it should be too. But the responses from the builders have constraints and small print. For example, one excluded paint whereas our spec was for mist coat and two coats of emulsion. One has external render and painted, the other doesn't, and the spec requires it. Provisional sums everywhere too, boiler £1k! assumptions that no CH pipework needs altering, but if it does it's at their extra rate. Of course the pipework will need altering, one of the requirements is a door right where a rad is.

Then there is the fact it's an estimate not a quote.

Maybe that's where I'm going wrong? Should the responses be a fixed price quote rather than estimate?

 

[^woody^]

Thanks. When you put it like that it sounds so simple. I guess it should be too. But the responses from the builders have constraints and small print. For example, one excluded paint whereas our spec was for mist coat and two coats of emulsion. One has external render and painted, the other doesn't, and the spec requires it. Provisional sums everywhere too, boiler £1k! assumptions that no CH pipework needs altering, but if it does it's at their extra rate. Of course the pipework will need altering, one of the requirements is a door right where a rad is.

Then there is the fact it's an estimate not a quote.

Maybe that's where I'm going wrong? Should the responses be a fixed price quote rather than estimate?

You need to state that the contractor is to price the work fully and not qualify their submission and that you will not accept any that are.

You invite contractors to quote on your terms not theirs.

There should be a document "Form of Tender" that the contractor writes their price and this becomes the formal quote (not an estimate) and this document contains your text not theirs. All they write on it is there name, address and price in figures and words.

If you had proper tender/quote documents prepared by a professional, they would be in a specific format with specific details informing and guiding contractors in how to fill in your documents. All they do is add prices, nothing else unless you ask for it.

No provisional sums unless you specify it - and it is you the client who decides what the PS is, not the contractor. Again, so that each bidder uses the same PS to ensure that all quotes are comparable.

With any building work there is always potential for additional works - either unknown at the start or requested as work proceeds. You manage this via the contract and use the tendered rates.

You ask for their daywork rates, and when you enter contract with the successful firm, you state that daywork is only claimable after your express prior consent.

 

[dormermike]

Thanks woody. I'm going to take this up with the architect as that's what I thought we were getting. To say I'm ****ed off with this whole process is an understatement.