Building Regs Sign Off

[Ydraiggoch]

Hi,

I'm about to start on a large Extension on my House which will include an installation of a Kitchen. I plan to do all the wiring myself which will include installation of a new Ring (For Kitchen) 2 x Radial power circuits for Hob / Cookers and lighting radials.

However, as I am not an 'Electrician' I plan to ask one of my collegues to sign this work off for me. One is timeserved but who's CSE card has expired or one who is Time Served and currently has his own company. Would this be acceptable for building control in Scotland? If so which one would you ask?

For information, I myself am an Electrical Engineer and whilst I have been working as an Industrial spark (in one for or other) for 18 years I haven't done the apprenticeship etc. I do have the 17th Edition and HND in Electrical Engineering along with C&Gs isn HV Switching & Protection. So feel pretty comfortable with doing this work.

But just wanted to make sure this would fly??

Thanks in advance

 

[ban-all-sheds]

However, as I am not an 'Electrician' I plan to ask one of my collegues to sign this work off for me. One is timeserved but who's CSE card has expired or one who is Time Served and currently has his own company. Would this be acceptable for building control in Scotland? If so which one would you ask?

I would ask Building Control. Tell them exactly what you plan to do, and see which person they would prefer you to engage.

For information, I myself am an Electrical Engineer and whilst I have been working as an Industrial spark (in one for or other) for 18 years I haven't done the apprenticeship etc. I do have the 17th Edition and HND in Electrical Engineering along with C&Gs isn HV Switching & Protection. So feel pretty comfortable with doing this work.

Tell Building Control all of that too - it is relevant to them in assessing whether they will accept your plan.

But just wanted to make sure this would fly??

Only your Building Control dept can tell you that.

 

[Ydraiggoch]

Cheers Ban all Sheds, my worry was that if I was to ask them and they say its a no go, then I would be stuck...

So was thinking of not telling them and making out that the work was done by the person signing it off? A little sneeky I know...

I suppose I could phone them and not tell them which build I'm talking about. That way I would know their opinion and they awouldn't know which plan it was for?

 

[EFLImpudence]

I eagerly await Bas' reply.

Here it comes -

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Cheers Ban all Sheds, my worry was that if I was to ask them and they say its a no go, then I would be stuck...

Better to get stuck at that stage than when the work is done and you can't get the completion certificate (or whatever the Scottish equivalent is) because they find out and don't like what you did.

I'm about to start on a large Extension on my House which will include an installation of a Kitchen.

That won't be cheap. Are you really prepared to risk ending up with no certification for it to save a few hundred quid?

="Ydraiggoch, post: 3418114, member: 230156"I plan to do all the wiring myself ... I myself am an Electrical Engineer and whilst I have been working as an Industrial spark (in one for or other) for 18 years I haven't done the apprenticeship etc. I do have the 17th Edition and HND in Electrical Engineering

Does the law in Scotland allow you to DIY the electrical work and notify it along with the rest of the building work for the extension>

So was thinking of not telling them and making out that the work was done by the person signing it off? A little sneeky I know...

Not just sneaky.

Illegal.

And what you plan to do is to ask a colleague or friend, who is a professional, to also lie and to conspire with you to contravene the law. Doesn't sound honourable to me.

I suppose I could phone them and not tell them which build I'm talking about. That way I would know their opinion and they awouldn't know which plan it was for?

Yup, or email them, that way you'd have it in writing.

 

[Ydraiggoch]

I've just phoned them and explained what qualifications I have and they basically said that if I have BS7671 Wiring Regulation certification (17th Edition) then I can sign off on the work....
I wasn't to convinced by this so, asked if I could send all my Certs to them and get them checked and if acceptable would have it in writing.

With regards to getting a collegue / friend to sign off, I assume that as long as he carries out the necessary Inspection & Testing then there would be nothing 'Illegal or dishonourable' about that?

 

[Risteard]

With regards to getting a collegue / friend to sign off, I assume that as long as he carries out the necessary Inspection & Testing then there would be nothing 'Illegal or dishonourable' about that?

I suspect he was referring to the fact that you suggested falsely claiming that they had carried out the entire work (and not simply the inspection and testing).

If you were honest and had that person only sign for the Inspection and Testing, and you signed for Design and Construction, then as long as Building Control were happy with that then that would be fine.

Lieing to Building Control would probably be slightly less than legal, and some might also say immoral.

 

[Ydraiggoch]

I'm certainly not looking to deliberatly break the law here, just wanting to put my own knowledge & experience to use on a project for my own purposes (for a change).

Appendix 6 of BS 7671 Introduction (i) states that ‘The Electrical Installation Certificate required by Part 6 should be made out and signed or otherwise authenticated by a competent person in respect of the design / construction & Inspection& Testing of the work.

So definition of ‘Competent Person’ as per Part 2 is A person who possesses sufficient technical knowledge, relevant practical skills and experience for the nature of the Electrical work undertaken and is able at all times to prevent danger, where appropriate, injury to him / herself and others’

The ‘Electrical Installation Certificate’ states in each section of sign off ie Design, Construction & Inspection & Testing, that for the person being responsible have exercised reasonable skill & care when carrying out the Design/Construction/ I&T Certify that the work has been carried out to the best of my knowledge and belief in accordance with BS7671:2008….

This all seems a little vague as its down to interpretation on quantifying what is ‘sufficient’ and what is ‘reasonable skill & care’?

All very interesting and I’m sure will create a good debate…

 

[Risteard]

Judging by the definitions used, it appears that you are referencing an outdated version of BS7671. Presuming that this hasn't already been designed, the Design, Construction and Inspection & Testing must now comply with BS7671:2008 (2015).

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I've just phoned them and explained what qualifications I have and they basically said that if I have BS7671 Wiring Regulation certification (17th Edition) then I can sign off on the work....

Sounds reasonable.

I wasn't to convinced by this so, asked if I could send all my Certs to them and get them checked and if acceptable would have it in writing.

Good idea

With regards to getting a collegue / friend to sign off, I assume that as long as he carries out the necessary Inspection & Testing then there would be nothing 'Illegal or dishonourable' about that?

Not at all, as long as you don't misrepresent who did what.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I'm certainly not looking to deliberatly break the law here, just wanting to put my own knowledge & experience to use on a project for my own purposes (for a change).

Good. But I hope you can see that that's not quite what you said here:

So was thinking of not telling them and making out that the work was done by the person signing it off?

This all seems a little vague as its down to interpretation on quantifying what is ‘sufficient’ and what is ‘reasonable skill & care’?

It is vague, and undefined.

If you think you have good grounds to believe that you are competent, and can exercise reasonable skill and care etc, then you may sign an EIC. Your decision to do so would only be seriously questioned if something went seriously t**ts up.

As for the value that others might place on your EIC, the one which really matters is that of your Building Control dept, and you're addressing that.

 

[Ydraiggoch]

Just heard back from the Buildings Standards Inspector and heres what he said;

As long as you can provide a copy of your City & Guilds Certificate in the requirements for Electrical Installations BS7671: June 2008 (IEE 17th Edition) along with a completed copy of the attached form at Completion, then this would be acceptable for you to carry out the works.

Have to admit, I'm a little surprised at this. But here it is in writing!