Cameras don't cut road deaths - they raise them...

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Be interesting if someone can firm up the figures a bit. Is it that accidents go up at cameras, or go up 100m before the camera and 100m after?

How many extra accidents would be low enough to justify the extra revenue they generate?
 
There's supposed to be a bit of new technology on the way that can end all this camera dodging stuff. It goes something like this:

1) You go past a camera.

2) It grabs a picture of your number plate and notes the time.

3) Many miles later you go past another one.

4) It sees your number plate, notes the time and calculates your average speed.

I can see how this isn't foolproof. There'll always be somebody who works out how long they've been stuck in a traffic queue and how fast they can now go to get their average back up to the limit - there'll probably be cars with computers in them to do the sums for you - but it'll put an end to all this rapid braking at cameras.

I observed this first hand a week ago. I was driving down a hill at 40 mph (the limit) when I saw brake lights ahead. No problem. It's a dual carriageway with nothing in the outside lane but why is that car stopping? The answer was camera shaped. The driver obviously thought he was in a 30 zone!
 
felix said:
It's a dual carriageway with nothing in the outside lane but why is that car stopping? The answer was camera shaped. The driver obviously thought he was in a 30 zone!

Happens all the while round the ring road in our area, 40 mph zone on approx 80% of road, but people slow or more dangerously brake hard to 30 mph for the cameras. :evil:

If they were more observant they would notice those little white circular discs, with a red ring around the outside and a bl00dy big number in black in the middle. Thats the speed limit guys! Wake up. :confused:

I have read numerous survey by lots of different organisations and they all pretty much say that speed isn't the big killer its made out to be. Its more likely to be because of driving without paying attention to whats going on and the road conitions. Especially using the phone, reading a book, arguing with the kids. (lots of near misses because of other people doing this.) etc etc.

Only thing is there isnt a camera sytem that can detect these.
 
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felix said:
There's supposed to be a bit of new technology on the way that can end all this camera dodging stuff.
It's already happening on the Motorway and they are blue video camera working 24/7 & doesn't use any film or tape. It work out your average speed time between the camera and before you know it the ticket is in the post already. These cameras are taking over fast because the speed camera photos gatso may not be accurate and this has been proved. They are now working out how to see your tax disc is not out of date when taking your numberplate etc.
specs.jpg
 
But I do not mind the average speed cam - if we have to have the damn things - at least it is going some way to not disadvantaging the law abiding, ie. Not 'done' for that small lapse we are all prone to.

I still believe prevention is better than cure .. The cams and radar are here, it could become worse again .... I reckon the ISA (Link) project is the way, let us help everyone become law abiding instead of criminalising the few blinking in the light !! and maybe the misguided 'taking the bullet' for another as the NIP name !
;)
 
its not that new a technology. The east german border guards used to clock you in on the only autobahn to berlin and clock you at the other end. They then worked out your speed and fined you if you were over the limit!

As for speed, well i agree with some of the comments that the cameras are a source of income raising for the government, and i really have to scratch my head at some of the supposed black spots they are placed at. Then again, they do serve a purpose in reminding people of the limit, and even if they only make you slow down for a bit its got to be worth it. Your more likely to survive being hit by a car at 30mph than at 36mph, seems a small difference, but its a big one. We all speed, we shouldnt but we do, but i try my best not to now. Why? because of this:-

One of the last jobs i dealt with was this

http://www.theargus.co.uk/the_argus/archive/2004/05/17/NEWS100ZM.html

I was called out on a sunday evening from a family barbecue. my job was part of the team that literally picked up all the bits, so they could be indentified and the bodies reunited for buriel. It was just about the final straw for me and all because of a speeding driver. Puts it all in perspective really. Well it did for me. :cry:
 
SPEEDING SPEEDING SPEEDING, sod speeding, what we need is more, much more, officers on bikes and in cars nicking the morons who drive way too slow, dangerously and illegally.

As annoying as it may be on occasion, I am in favour of the Police being able to random stop, we need some of the 5.5 million illegal cars of the road (figure quoted by DVLA on the news 2 days ago). All the camera's in the world will not catch bad driving, and speeding is not necessarilly bad or dangerous driving per se.

The speed camera's need to be placed in the back streets, where we all live and the roads are full of parked cars, this is where they are needed to stop idiots doing 40 or 50 in the 30 zone, not someone doing 60 up an emty dual carriageway that the local council has dropped to 40!

It is all about money.

Speeding, as I noted above, can be dangerous in the wrong places, and this needs to be addressed, but equally important is STANDARD of driving, which is sadely lacking these days, and also teaching children that you don't run out in the road without checking it is safe to do so, regardless of the speed of oncoming traffic.

When I was at school the Police used to come to the school and teach us how to safely cross the road, and how to safely and legally ride a push bike on the road, all that is gone now. I am still in touch with several people from those days, who are also in touch with many more, only one person we are aware of has been run over by a car in our year ..and that is about 120 people, yet mu niece, who is 12, has had 5 kids in her class run over in the last 2 years, and only once was it deemed the drivers fault.

This pre-occupation with speeding is costing lives, and it needs to be addressed.
 
fwl, couldnt agree more, the bottom line of your signiture says it all, thats why there are less coppers on the roads. this government has become obsessed with finding cheap ways of supposedly getting the job done, like community wardens, camera partnerships etc. its all crap and it doesnt work.

Having said rarely encountered a crap dangerous driver who didnt speed!
 
Thermo said:
its not that new a technology. The east german border guards used to clock you in on the only autobahn to berlin and clock you at the other end. They then worked out your speed and fined you if you were over the limit!

They did do that, but for different reasons :eek: If you took too long they would be suspicious you had stopped along the way.

One survey show that most people think they are a better than average driver. I have only ever met one person who said he was a rubbish driver, worryingly he sounded proud of it! On occasion you might see some oik blasting up the hard shoulder on the motorway, he probably reckons he is a brilliant driver, and no doubt thinks he would be great as a racing driver.

So, police presence definitely is the only feasible way. ISA is a start at a technical solution, but it only kerbs speed and doesn't stop inconsiderate driving. Ever noticed how you see fewer people on the phone, swerving and speeding as you pass a cop-car doing 65 on the inside lane?

However, a mile past the car (if that) they'll be speeding and cutting about again. Similar to a Gatso! :LOL:

Perhaps, if they spent a billion or two on a load of unmarked police cars and policemen, people would be wary instead of saving up their best driving for the crawl past the jam sandwich?

An approach I was discussing with a friend was, what if you have some kind of system on every car which does the following: if someone cuts you up, does something dangerous or is generally driving like an a**e (on your back bumper, flashing), then you have a button that you press. This takes the last 10-20s of video out of the camera looking at that car, and sends it to the central police office (either immediately or perhaps automatically via the petrol station pump nozzle next time you fill up). The system decides (automatically?) if the other driver really was in error, and assigns so many points depending on what they did (e.g. 10 points for tailgating, 20 points for superclose tailgating and 30 if they flash their lights).

Of course, this would require a lot of labour, but here comes the clever bit to reduce that: only cars that have had a preset number of reports (e.g. 5) would be investigated. Also, persistent abuse of the system (logging cars that really weren't doing anything wrong) would incur penalties. Thus preventing farts who drive at 10 mph and wonder why people are tailgating (of course, inappropriately restricting traffic flow by driving slowly would be an offence!)

It would also work on illegally parked cars. Thus we could kill all parking attendents safe in the knowledge there won't be a problem.

So, driving would become governed partially by social standards, and common sense with etiquette would be paramount. If you drive like a d*ck, you get fined. Brilliant :D
 
First off can I just say how I enjoy these good posts ...
Anyway enough with the rambling ...

AdamW
Driving standards have fallen dramatically over the years ,I think its down to the way standards elsewhere have dropped in society...


FWL_Engineer
your very Correct about the lack of "jam sandwiches " an motorbike coppers ,there is no deterrent to bad drivers on the Motorways now except a massive Road Traffic Accident ,where the dickhead driver usually escapes injury an leave others dead/maimed (Sky TV, Have a good show about this on now called "Road Wars" )

Thermo
I dont envy your job one bit but applaud your dedication to your profession

btw I saw in my local paper that the local Hospital Trust was recruiting for Emergancy Ambulance Persons ,the Hourly Rate was £8.75 an hour ..
OMG ...£8.75 for the Excellent Job these Wonderful People do,its a shockingly low rate of pay ... Hmmm

The post about cameras being able to catch motorists without valid Road Tax is already in use ,the number plates are red flagged with the DVLA computer instantly now
but some guy was on here awhile ago saying how he doesnt register his van so he drives anonymous ,no tax no insurance no responabilities ...shameful !
on a last point a pal was in the Army an stationed in Germany an he said the autobahns had no Speed limits ?
 
[code:1]
Accidents for North Wales police area
Yr Fatal Serious Slight Total
2002 44 318 3,285 3,647
2003 49 304 3,089 3,442
2004 58 280 2,865 3,203[/code:1]

The domain of the king of Cameras .. Chief Con. Richard Brunstrom chairman of the Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO)
The road death toll has increased from 2002 to 2004 by total 31.8% a compund rate of 14.8%
Worse still the actual rate of increase ..2002 -03 increased by 11.36%, 2003-04 increase 18.4% .... Fair amount of GROWTH there !!

Worse again for the 'creative manager' the total accidents have decreased by 12.1%.

Technology was never to be mankind's panacea for its problems.
Click Source
;)
 
moz

thank you for your kind comments, its a shame that the government and the idiots that run the forces dont share that view, hence why i and hundreds (no exageration) have left to go to pastures new. You can only be commited for so long, but there comes a time when you put your family, and yourself first, not an easy decision until the the lunatics take over the asylum
 
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