Cat5/6 question.

[Mottie]

I hope you're not going to try to run 4K over 15m of plain copper HDMI cable.

Err, I was. I’m not expecting 4K quality, just an easy HDMI connection from my cctv to my TV. I don’t have any connection at the moment, I just view the CCTV on my phone or iPad. The current connection from the cctv to my router is via a powerline adaptor with the router end on the downstairs ring main and the cctv (which is in the loft) adaptor on the upstairs ring main. I was kind of hoping it would be as good or better than that setup. I have a spare tv in loft that is connected to the cctv by a 1m HDMI for monitoring and setup purposes so before I go running the 15m cable all round the place, I was thinking to just replace the 1m one with the 15m one to test it first. If it’s no good it can go back.

This one.

 

[EddieM]

Personally if given free choice, I'd go for fibre, but that throws up a whole different range of issues.

 

[Lucid]

I hear what you're saying about viewing the web page for the CCTV, and I'll come to that shortly; but the immediate question which is very important is "do you really need to send a 4K UHD signal down this cable?"

The answer is only Yes if all your cameras are native UHD resolution, and your recorder is recording from them in UHD resolution too.

If you're wondering, 'native UHD resolution' means that the imaging chip inside the camera has a physical pixel count of 3840x2160 pixels. A lot of CCTV manufacturers will quote MegaPixels for the resolution. 3840x2160 is 8.3 MP. For comparison, 1080p HD has a pixel count of 1920x1080, so it's MP number is 1920x1080 = 2 or 2.1 MP depending on whether it's rounded up or down.

Interpolated resolution isn't the same as native resolution. Where your cameras have a native resolution of less than 8.3 MP, but the recorder is outputting at UHD, then either the cameras or the recorder are taking a lower resolution image and scaling it up. This kind of up-scaling doesn't improve the picture quality or increase the image resolution though.

Bringing this back to your cable, if your cameras are 1080p native, and the recorder can record those images at the same resolution, then the best quality you'll get from the system is when the HDMI output resolution is set to 1080p. This will also help with the HDMI cable.

Currently there are no passive all-copper HDMI cables capable of sending a UHD resolution image at 50 or 60Hz over 15m. It may (and probably will work at 1080p 50/60Hz, but a UHD signal requires the cable to pass 4x the amount of data, and that's just too much for copper HDMI without some form of amplifier/equaliser.


Relating this back to your web browser CCTV monitoring, bear in mind that the smaller screens on the phone and tablet will help hide image issues that a 55"/65"/75" UHD flatscreen will show up just because the picture is much bigger. The image though should still look good.

 

[Mottie]

Well, my cameras definitely and my dvr possibly are 1080p and I just thought that a 4K cable would be a better quality than a standard quality one that was only £4 cheaper. It was the gold plating on the ends that confirmed the quality to me......

 

[winston1]

Gold plating is a gimmick not a sign of quality. Pointless unless the sockets you are plugging into are gold plated as well.

 

[Mottie]

Gold plating is a gimmick not a sign of quality. Pointless unless the sockets you are plugging into are gold plated as well.

My 'gold plating' comment was tongue in cheek.

 

[Lucid]

My 'gold plating' comment was tongue in cheek.

I got it and smiled.

 

[Mottie]

Bringing this back to your cable, if your cameras are 1080p native, and the recorder can record those images at the same resolution, then the best quality you'll get from the system is when the HDMI output resolution is set to 1080p. This will also help with the HDMI cable.

Currently there are no passive all-copper HDMI cables capable of sending a UHD resolution image at 50 or 60Hz over 15m. It may (and probably will work at 1080p 50/60Hz, but a UHD signal requires the cable to pass 4x the amount of data, and that's just too much for copper HDMI without some form of amplifier/equaliser.

Just to update, cable received today, bloody thick, thicker than the Cat5e cable. Temporary tested it by plugging into the CCTV in loft (across landing, down stairs, across hall and through lounge) and to TV in lounge. Perfect picture on a 42” screen, to my old eyes anyway. I only have 4 cameras in total, all 1080p so I assume that’s why I got away with it. Once fitted correctly we can now just switch to cctv at the flick of the remote instead of opening an app and viewing on phone or tablet.

 

[Mottie]

Another question. I’ve laid all my Cat5e solid copper cables on the ground floor (still to get one up to the loft) and I’ve just noticed that it is 'outdoor' cable, not 'indoor' cable. That shouldn’t make any difference should it?

 

[rsgaz]

No, just means you've paid a bit more than you needed to.

'Proper' outdoor cat5e has a polyethylene jacket, indoor is PVC.

Will be a bit stiffer to work with and harder to strip.

 

[Mottie]

Yes, it is a bit stiff. Paying a bit more than I need is better than paying a bit less I suppose.

 

[Mottie]

Just a minor update. Downstairs cables laid, one single wall plate in hall next to router, one in dining room next to where Virgin cable comes in (in case we ever go back to Virgin cable), one double wall plate behind TV for TV and Fire TV box. 8 way switch in under stairs cupboard. Connected to wall plates and RJ45 ends, switched on and it all works! TV and Fire TV definitely runs quicker/better. Next job is to get a cable from switch up to loft for the CCTV. One question: I have an old EE router. If I fit this in the loft and connect up to the the downstairs switch, would I be correct in thinking that I can use that as a switch AND, using the EE router WiFi password, have a WiFi signal upstairs?

 

[Lucid]

Only if the EE router firmware allows it to operate as a Wi-Fi repeater and switch. TBH, I doubt their giveaway routers are that clever, but you never know until you try it.

What is certain is that in standard configuration it won't work. It will try to be a DHCP Server in competition with the main other router. That will stop any wired and wireless devices working where theres an IP address conflict. Also, it won't mesh wireless even if you're using the same passwords.

 

[Mottie]

Only if the EE router firmware allows it to operate as a Wi-Fi repeater and switch. TBH, I doubt their giveaway routers are that clever, but you never know until you try it.

What is certain is that in standard configuration it won't work. It will try to be a DHCP Server in competition with the main other router. That will stop any wired and wireless devices working where theres an IP address conflict. Also, it won't mesh wireless even if you're using the same passwords.

Thanks. I’ll scrub that idea then.

 

[Mottie]

All done. CCTV connected to ethernet, HDMI cable connected to TV. Thanks for all your advice. All working good. Only trouble was that I knocked the very last nail right through my central heating pipe when putting the floor back down.