CCTV and ID cards

[imamartian]

You can g'tee all those scenarios will take place.

I accept that there probably are some bent coppers, but you suggest they are voyeurs, stalkers, and into bribery? If this does happen they need locking up and the key throwing away. But i suspect it's a tiny fraction of a percentage....

why do you want to watch me all the time?

Lincs, are you serious? believe me, nobody wants to watch you all the time (no offeence intended ) That response to cctv cameras borders on paranoia !

 

[imamartian]

ellal please explain then...

 

[imamartian]

Nope...I just don't like people who patronise those who dare to suggest that anyone has the right to privacy, which you obviously seem to think is a 'crime'...

i wanted to understand what your definition of privacy is... in the context of cctv.... you seem to find it wrong that your images has been stored as a few million pixels... or are you assuming that some governement official has tagged you in these videos and is drawing up a study of your movements?

if you don't like a record of your image, then seriously, how do you cope with other peoples' eyes and their memories...?

Define privacy... (and without calling me a d1ckh3ad would be good)...

 

[Lincsbodger]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8687083.stm
Copper charged with rape

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/n...harged-with-exwifersquos-murder-14812031.html
Retired copper charged with murder

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ttacks-including-seven-rapes-year-period.html
Copper charged with 43 sex attacks

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-WPC-fianc-e-fatally-injured-crashed-car.html
Copper charged with murder of WPC

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...-to-be-charged-with-assaulting-protestor.html
Copper charged with Assault

http://www.kboi2.com/news/95031299.html
Copper charged with child molesting

http://bridgendbnp.blogspot.com/2008/12/ex-policeman-charged-with-money.html
Money laundering

http://bridgendbnp.blogspot.com/2008/12/ex-policeman-charged-with-money.html
One of the Soham Murders coppers turned out to be a kiddy fiddler

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8504308.stm
Top Asian copper as crooked as a nine bob note.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-as-police-abuse-antiterror-laws-1228149.html
Police criminalise Press by abusing anti-terror laws.

Then of course you had the West Midlands Regional Crime Squad, disbanded because it was rotten and corrupt to the core, and unfixable, they spent 20 years stiching people up with planted evidence and comfessions extraced through beatings.

I could spend another hour finding examples of rotten corrupt coppers, and write pages and pages (in fact i write pages and pages on Miscarriages of Justice in other places, of which theres hundreds in the UK). The UK police are rotten and corrupt to the core. I would never talk to a copper, and never trust one. And lets not forget the state murders of Charles De Menedez, Dr David Kelly and Blair Peach.

 

[Thermo]

what a load of hogwash

 

[ellal]

Funny how my reply now gets 'topic does not exist' eh...

Something to hide?...

 

[skitzee2k]

I do not see how a list of CONVICTED ex policeman is evidence of wholesale corruption...being that they were all convicted.

Any system of law and order can be corrupted, but with certain safeguards this can be minimised...i do not see the need for reduction of crime fighting apparatus.

 

[Lincsbodger]

I do not see how a list of CONVICTED ex policeman is evidence of wholesale corruption...being that they were all convicted.

Any system of law and order can be corrupted, but with certain safeguards this can be minimised...i do not see the need for reduction of crime fighting apparatus.

you miss the point. There shouldnt be any at all. the police are the guardians of the law, and should be honest beyond reproach and implicitly trustworthy. The list should have no entries in it at all.

And thats just what i found in 5 minutes googling. I write on a Miscarriage of Justice website, theres more than 600 cases there of people wrongly jailed, mainly through police incompetence, police corruption or abuse of process.

Look at the policing of traffic, and especially speeding. We know the police lie cheat, misuse equipment and abuse there authority on a large scale, go look at the hundreds of cases on www.pepipoo.com. The abuse of power by the law enforcement bodies of this country is widecsale and endemic. Its not ajust a few coppers. And its protected by a complicit judiciary.

Theres currently a guy trying to prove in court that Gatso's are inaccurate below 0C. he wasting his time. theres been several cases where people have shown thats not only GATSO's, bu tthe Lti20-20 laser speedmeter is also inaccurate, but the courts will never find in there favour, no matter how compelling the evidence . The system is a multimillion pound cash cow, and no one wants the boat rocked. To admit that speeding prosecutions are defective and have been for 30 years is unthinkable to them, so the rotten corrupt system will carry on regardless, no matter how good your evidence to the contrary. Thus the corruption of law enforcement bodies in the UK is widespread and institutuionalised.

 

[ellal]

but your lowest denominator (verbal insults) is so far lower than mine... plus you haven't exactly 'taken my argument apart' with facts, have you, just thuggery?

'thuggery?...aw, bless

Fact is, it doesn't matter how many facts are thrust under the nose of any dogged supporter...You chose not to respond to the 3% figure - why's that?

But if cctv is so good, and given that the UK has the highest concentration of them in Europe, it's safe to assume we have less crime isn't it?

Linky

But the answer of the indoctrinated is always, well we just need more...

That is the kind of 'logic' (?) that has made it 'acceptable' to use covert surveillance for such heinous crimes as dog fouling, whilst being unable to deal with serious ones...

But since you aren't worried about losing your privacy, how come youareamartian..what's your real name, if you have nothing to hide in a public place? After all, "Your actions are recorded, but i suspect in most cases you aren't being analysed. Your daily activities aren't being logged in a diary of your life. "...

 

[Thermo]

then surely we have nothing to fear from CCTV ??

Every time someone wheels this one out the answer is point 8:

WHY YOU SHOULD NEVER TALK TO THE POLICE, EVEN IF YOU ARE INNOCENT

1. You cannot talk your way out of being arrested, but you CAN talk your way into being arrested. . Nothing you say to a policeman can benefit you in court, and the police are not obliged to provide the court with other peoples verbal evidence beneficial to the defence, as it is heresay and inadmissible. Absolute rubbish. any comments you make will influence a police officers decision to arrest or de-arrest. Any comments you make regarding an allegation are recorded and considered by the court.

2. Even if you are guilty, or even innocent, you may unknowingly admit to breaking a law you didnt even know existed, eg placing a postage stamp of the queen on an envelope upside down is treason. so what, do you think anyone will bother to deal with that??

3.In the USA, in 25% of cases where subsequent DNA evidence proved innocence of a crime accused of, the defendant still admitted guilt in another crime in interview. The Police use psychology in interviews to make people compliant and incriminate themselves (eg good cop/bad cop). 85% of convictions in the USA last year relied on self incrimination. SO they admit guilt to something, whats your point. If you think good cop bad cop outine exists in pace interviews over here youve been watching ashes to ashes too much. Police interviews are about as intresting as watching paint dry

4. Even if you are innocent and mostly tell the truth, its possible to tell a small lie that will be seized on by the police and used to discredit and convict you. How can they convict you if are innocent. If there is no evidence of the offence it not problem.

5. Even if you are innocent and always tell the truth, you will almost always give the police SOME trivial information that can be used out of context and against you in some way to convict you of something. DO you really understand how it works???

6. Even if you are innocent and always tell the truth, and give the police nothing at all incriminating, you will never remember all your evidence with 100 percent accuracy, and the discrepancies in each recollection will be used to discredit and convict you. How? The police meerly collect the evidence, they dont convict the cps does. if there is no evidence or insufficent evidence they wont put it before a court. likewise a court wont convict

7. Police officers make mistakes and lie, and so even if all you answers are innocent and do not incriminate you, the recollection of the questions asked of you may change and so the changed context of your answer become detrimental to you. This is why the Police videotape interviews.
And they use taped interviews and written interviews, so there is an accurate record that both parties may refer to as may the court, so how will that hinder you?

8. Even if you are innocent and always tell the truth, and give the police nothing at all incriminating,and remember all your evidence with 100 percent accuracy, and its all videotaped, the police may come into possession of contrary evidence, from unreliable sources, or from a mistaken witnesses, or malicious witnesses, or confused witnesses, and that evidence can be used to convict you. ANd that is why the defence has the chance to cross examine any evidence that may be relevant to disprove it and why the character background of a witness is revealed in court.

9. Both an innocent and a guilty man will always regret talking to the police. And everyone is guilty of something, no matter how trivial, and most people are inherently honest and will confess to trivial crimes, which can be use to subject you to greater investigation and conviction. You are on another planet


NEVER EVER TALK TO THE POLICE WITHOUT PRIOR LEGAL ADVICE, IN THE PRESENCE OF A SOLICITOR AND WITH INDEPENDENT RECORDING OF THE INTERVIEW.

You really dont understand how pace and the sytem works do you? Why does it need to be independlty recorded when two copies of the tape are done, in the presence of the solicitor and the arrested person and they have access to the tape?SHow me some evidence of some instances when police have doctored the tapes? and with your comments about the right to silence it still remains. There is nothing at all to stop you remaining silent when asked any questions. AN inference may only be drawn in ceratin circumstances and then certain special warnings need to be given, so that a court MAY draw an inference

there does that make my earlier comment a little clearer

 

[Lincsbodger]

You really dont understand how pace and the sytem works do you? Why does it need to be independlty recorded when two copies of the tape are done, in the presence of the solicitor and the arrested person and they have access to the tape?SHow me some evidence of some instances when police have doctored the tapes? and with your comments about the right to silence it still remains. There is nothing at all to stop you remaining silent when asked any questions. AN inference may only be drawn in ceratin circumstances and then certain special warnings need to be given, so that a court MAY draw an inference[/color]

there does that make my earlier comment a little clearer

I understand exactly how PACE works, child.

I know of at least two cases of miscarriage of justice where the police have 'lost' the tapes of the interview, or never made any and interviewed without, which led to more charges.

Ive seen enough not to trust the police, personally, because as I said earlier, there rotten and corrupt to the core.

And dont patronise me, or you'll be debating on your own...........

 

[snico]

Look at the policing of traffic, and especially speeding. We know the police lie cheat, misuse equipment and abuse there authority on a large scale, go look at the hundreds of cases on www.pepipoo.com. The abuse of power by the law enforcement bodies of this country is widecsale and endemic. Its not ajust a few coppers. And its protected by a complicit judiciary

 

[Lincsbodger]

Look at the policing of traffic, and especially speeding. We know the police lie cheat, misuse equipment and abuse there authority on a large scale, go look at the hundreds of cases on www.pepipoo.com. The abuse of power by the law enforcement bodies of this country is widecsale and endemic. Its not ajust a few coppers. And its protected by a complicit judiciary

dont just quote it, go read and have your eyes opened.

 

[snico]

Look at the policing of traffic, and especially speeding. We know the police lie cheat, misuse equipment and abuse there authority on a large scale, go look at the hundreds of cases on www.pepipoo.com. The abuse of power by the law enforcement bodies of this country is widecsale and endemic. Its not ajust a few coppers. And its protected by a complicit judiciary

dont just quote it, go read and have your eyes opened.

I dont need to have my eyes opened, I have read that site many many times.

I enjoy reading reading the posts that start with........'I was driving at 100mph.....I know I shouldnt have but I was flashed....please help'

 

[Lincsbodger]

I enjoy reading reading the posts that start with........'I was driving at 100mph.....I know I shouldnt have but I was flashed....please help'

Yes, but if you are travelling at that speed then dont have a leg to stand on. Theres just as many cases where the police are pulling a fast one in some way, from misuse of the equipment to making up statements and evidence, and collusion to make 'facts' fit stories and vice versa.