CEILING IS LATH AND PLASTER, REPLACE WITH OVERBOARD??

[zamuski]

Hi.
The ceilings in a house i've recently bought are lath and plaster, quite tired and need replacing.

I was wondering if its best to overboard and skim the old ceiling, or fully take down the old ceiling then replace with plaster board and skim??

What are the Pro's and Con's (if any) of the two methods??

I mean would overboarding help retain more heat in a room?
Its an old late victorian property with quite high ceilings.

All advice welcomed.
Cheers!

 

[peaps]

Hi.
The ceilings in a house i've recently bought are lath and plaster, quite tired and need replacing.

I was wondering if its best to overboard and skim the old ceiling, or fully take down the old ceiling then replace with plaster board and skim??

What are the Pro's and Con's (if any) of the two methods??

I mean would overboarding help retain more heat in a room?
Its an old late victorian property with quite high ceilings.

All advice welcomed.
Cheers!

I would remove the lath and insulate while I have the chance. Con, messy job.

pro, get to insulate a cold room and save fuel bills would be enough for me to put up with the mess, it cleans up ;o)

 

[JohnD]

You will be amazed by how much dirt, dust and rubble comes down

I would pull down and insulate as well though, if there are large patches cracked and loose, provided the house is empty and unfurnished. You will need goggles, dustmask, overalls, etc.

If the damaged areas are just sagging a bit, you can repair them, if you have access from above.

I won't type it all again.

//search.diynot.com/forum_sear...me=0&author=JohnD&search=Search+Forum&stype=0

 

[peaps]

You will be amazed by how much dirt, dust and rubble comes down

I would pull down and insulate as well though, if there are large patches cracked and loose, provided the house is empty and unfurnished. You will need goggles, dustmask, overalls, etc.

If the damaged areas are just sagging a bit, you can repair them, if you have access from above.

I won't type it all again.

//search.diynot.com/forum_sear...hor=JohnD&search=Search+Forum&stype=0[/QUOTE]

I use an extrator

 

[huddsspread]

I would remove the lath and insulate while I have the chance. Con, messy job.

pro, get to insulate a cold room and save fuel bills would be enough for me to put up with the mess, it cleans up ;o)[/quote]



10000% this is the way to go, as he says it cleans up.

 

[JohnD]

OOI, last year I had some water pipe damage in an old house, and the builders men carefully took off the thick lime plaster but left the old laths up.

Is it likely the plasteer would have redone L&P? They said he was an older man. I was not there and have not looked under a floor to check.

 

[stevethespreader]

OOI, last year I had some water pipe damage in an old house, and the builders men carefully took off the thick lime plaster but left the old laths up.

Is it likely the plasteer would have redone L&P? They said he was an older man. I was not there and have not looked under a floor to check.

if the leak was localized to one area it would have more than likley been patched up with the laths still in situ and the affected area floated in

 

[vv2806]

Depending what your priorities are. We recently moved to an old Edwardian house. Some of the rooms have the original ceilings with a beautiful plaster cornices, other rooms have been refurbished by the previous owners - plasterboard, no cornices or roses. I can tell you, it makes a big difference, I am going to restore the cornices when we decide to redecorate. One of the original ceilings was badly damaged by somebody who put insulation on the loft and his food on the ceiling. We had it lined with plasterboard to the cornices and skimmed. Looks very nice.

 

[JohnD]

stevethespreader, they pulled down the entire ceilings in two rooms, and a section of the landing up to a corner. On the landing they had some lengths of cornice run up to match, and these were fixed after the ceiling was done. It must have been very thick so it matched up with the ceiling round the corner. The old ceiling was lime (large 1905 house)

Is L&P considered preferable?

 

[peaps]

stevethespreader, they pulled down the entire ceilings in two rooms, and a section of the landing up to a corner. On the landing they had some lengths of cornice run up to match, and these were fixed after the ceiling was done. It must have been very thick so it matched up with the ceiling round the corner. The old ceiling was lime (large 1905 house)

Is L&P considered preferable?

*******.

Sounds like it was board and skim. I would lath and lime it but I like to keep to original, lime off lime on. Depend what you want, keep the features or not. If it's listed you may not have a choice depending on the listing etc.

 

[stevethespreader]

Is L&P considered preferable?

no

 

[peaps]

Is L&P considered preferable?

Yes lime is considered preferable. You need to know how these old builds were constructed. the whole house needs to breath, even the ceilings. They also need to stand a good deal of movement, this is why when you board a lath ceiling they tend to crack all the time and you get a blackpool beach edge.

Lime is also enviro frendly if you are into that gig. Many plasterers these days have never touched lime, it's a specialised work that needs a little more thinking through, not the job for 5 day wonder trained "plasterers" you come across these days.

The problem these days is that trades want to get in and out as quickly as possible to get max cash in the least time possible. Lime work takes time if done right and will cost more.

I spend most of my time working on listed buildings, grade 2* and grade 1 and in this situation there is no choice, you have to replace like for like right down to the mix ratios.

There is a reason why new builds take into consideration carcked plaster work. It's because they know you will get cracking because of movement/settlement. Gypsum base plasters don't allow for movement or breathability.

Steve parrot fasions advice he's read about around the interweb, he has no real experience.

"When repairing a lath wall or ceiling it's best to use matching materials, as the movement characteristics will be the same, lessening the likelihood of cracking. Despite the modern advances in making plasterboard, lath-and-plaster is superior, not only because it doesn't crack, but also for its sound-proofing properties. Traditional lime plaster is much denser than the gypsum which makes up plasterboard and so this helps absorb low-frequency sound. In addition, the way the plaster oozes between the laths leaves an irregular surface which cuts down on vibrations. So despite all our modern advances, good old fashioned lath and plaster has its advantages over new materials!"

http://www.heritagecobandlime.com/page12.htm

This is why I don't overboard lath ceilings, you will see crack appear for sure!

Some more reading for you and a good site to browse.

http://www.buildingconservation.com/articles/plaster/lime-plaster.htm

"In older house, lath and plaster ceilings may be countered, this technique was largely replaced by plasterboard in the 1950's. When a ceiling required repair, it is important to understand the differences between the two types and know which method was used when the ceiling was erected. Any repair will need to be carried out using the same techniques and materials as the original. Traditional lime putty used in lath and plaster ceilings is softer than modern gypsum plasters, and the two don't work well together."

http://www.practicaldiy.com/general-building/plaster-ceilings/ceilings-plaster.php

As you can see from the links, craftsmen whole have spent their lives working lime with traditioanl methods don't overboard and over skim..

Just because someone says they are a plasterer dosn't mean they know what they are doing. Many spend they working life on sites and over skimming private houses etc I have mand a small fortune putting right what a "spread" has messed up using modern methods etc.

 

[huddsspread]

When you two have finished arguing, can either of you come up with a when and when not to use lime plaster-----here me out first

Im 34, been doing this since i was 15/16. All i ever learnt was artexing, floating sand and cement/bonding. And skimming with "pink" plaster.

I can count on one hand the times ive used browning.

Now im orignally from essex, where its not "the only way", and for 13 years ive lived in yorkshire. Loads of houses are stone, with black lime thats falling off, loads are not. I ripped down and old lathe and plaster ceiling as it was gone, insulated boarded and skimmed. When i was putting up the coving, one of the external walls promptly fell off, as is had blown. Now all i did was stick some plasterboards on and skimmed it, for quickness for the customer. I could have rendered it and skimmed it but didn't have the time. It was stone work.

Would this have been the perfect place to use lime? as a plaster? Or render and skim with waterproofer in the sand? and just skim?

The reason being i have a quite old (1900) house which is stone work, and old black lime inside. Loads of the walls i and others have skimmed and it fine. But there are a couple of front bedrooms ( bigguns ) that have a lot of condensation, and a bit of penetrating damp, wind rain smashes down the valley on the front and gable.

What the customer wants is it all removing ( all interior plaster/lime etc ) Then Stud ALL the walls, kingspan, board and skim. But as im not a lime plasterer, i was considering rendering the walls before i build new ones.

What i would like is someone to say dont do that, do etc...I know the house needs to breath and it will. But if i render it am i going to smother it?

As you can see im a modern plasterer, so could do with the help form ANYBODY who has had loads of experience with lime

 

[peaps]

If you are going to render it then I would use lime. I come from Yorkshire and did much of my training on old stone builds Done a few houses around greenhead park, marsden, honley etc. You can Kingspan it but it would be advisable to insert small vents to help the wall breath.

Problem we face these days is that people want to keep there house warm, gone are the days when you can keep all your open fires roaring and central heating comes with it's own problems, condensation is one of them because they seal the house from draft. Coupled with cold external walls and no air flow you get condensation problems.

Catch 22 situation but you CAN use modern methods if done correctly but you can't but gypsum based products directly onto stone and not expect problem down the line.

 

[huddsspread]

If you are going to render it then I would use lime. I come from Yorkshire and did much of my training on old stone builds Done a few houses around greenhead park, marsden, honley etc. You can Kingspan it but it would be advisable to insert small vents to help the wall breath.

Problem we face these days is that people want to keep there house warm, gone are the days when you can keep all your open fires roaring and central heating comes with it's own problems, condensation is one of them because they seal the house from draft. Coupled with cold external walls and no air flow you get condensation problems.

Catch 22 situation but you CAN use modern methods if done correctly but you can't but gypsum based products directly onto stone and not expect problem down the line.

i live in marsden, and the house im doing is on manchester road in linthwaite. I wouldnt use gypsum on stone, but when you say vents, where would you put them? so you can still see them once you have boarded it? the plan i have is the gap between the old and new wall, i intend to leave a gap in the ceiling, so there will be an inch or so gap so the air in the loft ( there are vents) comes down behind the new wall.

The reason I wanted to render it was to stop the penetraiting damp coming in....the render is only for this purpose, so what mix would you use?