ceiling rose swap to r50 spotlight bar

[dougm1982]

thanks for trying to help folks.

I was told by a friend who has fitted the same lamp with the same wiring issue to connect the wires as follows:

2 browns and 1 red to live,
1 blue and 1 black to neutral
and the earth as expected.

The lights work, unfortunately they work all the time, the switch has no effect. the bulb is on the instant the breaker is switched back on.

Is this a small mistake on my part or part of a bigger issue? Apologies if i seem a bit uneducated about it all, but i've never tackled wiring at this level.
thanks again for any questions, advice.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

It's a mistake on your part - some of the browns/reds will be permanently live, and one will come from the switch. The permanently live ones should not be connected to the live of your light, unless you want it permanently on. You've got one of those unfortunate lights not designed for the traditional UK lighting circuit - it has nowhere to connect the live loop.

The Wiki explains how lighting circuits work //www.diynot.com/wiki/electrics:lighting, and has an article on how to replace a ceiling rose with a light like yours.

As you've lost track of which wire is the switched live you'll need a multimeter.

 

[Aragorn84]

simply, yes, its wired up completely wrong.

Two of the wires will be for the switch, and you cant just join everything together.

You will need to use a multimeter to identify the switch wires.

 

[dougm1982]

i thought as much. many thanks everyone.
i'm off to my local b&q for a multimeter i guess.

 

[securespark]

And do tell us what wiring appears at the second light fitting.

Go to one of the three Maplin stores in Glasgow and get one of these:

http://www.maplin.co.uk/search?criteria=multimeter

 

[Monkeh]

Don't get one of these: http://www.maplin.co.uk/domestic-multimeter-37279

They suck. Hugely.

 

[dougm1982]

I believe i have identified the switch wires. I have my breaker switched off, wall switch on and using the new multimeter (set for continuity) i get a reading across the 2 brown wires. no other wire combo gives any reading.

does this help identify what wires should be connected at N,L,E?

And do tell us what wiring appears at the second light

I was hoping to finish this lamp before i send that pic, but if memory serves the wiring was the same but with the difference that the new fitting had the same connections, so i leterally swapped like for like from old to new and it worked first time.

on a side note I found the next light in the circuit and its the bathroom, and it will not work until i sort this out. wife and kids were not happy with that discovery!!!

 

[dougm1982]

had a quick look at the other light in this room. I really am totally stumped now. There are 1 brown, 2 Blue and 2 earths..... no reds and no blacks.

Think i'll just replace the old ceiling rose and admit defeat this time

 

[securespark]

Don't give up, you'll drive me nuts! I won't be able to get to sleep tonight!

I reckon the red/black is the feed in to that fitting, as they don't appear at the switch or the other fitting.

If your testing is correct, and the two browns are giving a continuity reading when the switches are on and not when off, then that seems pretty conclusive.

I reckon the brown feeding the other fitting comes maybe from the switch end of the switch wire feeding the fitting you've taken down, if that makes sense.



If you confirm the red black as the live and neutral in (and no other browns or blues show a voltage), then I would put the blue and black together in a terminal block.

DON'T FORGET TO ISOLATE AND CHECK FOR DEAD WITH YOUR MM BEFORE ACCESSING LIVE PARTS.

Put the red and one of the browns together in a terminal block. Put the remaining brown in a terminal block on its own.

If the existing light comes on when the switches are on and goes off when you operate the switches, you have the correct pair together.

If the light does not go off regardless of the switch positions, you have the conductors paired incorrectly.

In this case, swap the browns around.

If this works, just connect the fitting's live up to the single brown, its neutral to the blue and black combo and the earth to the G/Y.

DON'T FORGET TO ISOLATE AND CHECK FOR DEAD WITH YOUR MM BEFORE ACCESSING LIVE PARTS.

 

[Scoby_Beasley]

Don't give up, you'll drive me nuts!

Me Too!!

 

[securespark]

No response....

 

[dougm1982]

hi guys sorry for the delay. I followed the suggestions with fingers crossed, it all made perfect sense. Unfortunately one set-up left the bulb on constantly and the other wouldn't work at all. but at this point this is probably due to my concentration levels dropping. I've been getting a really tough time from family and friends for attempting to work with electrics, and i've reached the point where i don't think i am capable of fixing the new light. So i'm sad to say i admitted defeat this morning and put the old ceiling rose back up. everything is working fine, even the bathroom light now works.

Thank you all so much for trying to help a novice like me, No doubt i'll be back again before long with a renewed determination.

Keep up the good work folks.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

• http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=electrical+circuits+101
  
  
• http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=multimeter+101
  
  
• http://kevinboone.net/electricity.html
  
  
• http://web.archive.org/web/20080213151445/http://www.kevinboone.com/domesticinstallations.html
  
  
• //www.diynot.com/wiki/electrics:books
  
  
• //www.diynot.com/wiki/electrics