Ceiling rose - unexpected wiring

[cj47]

Hello,

Trying to replace an old ceiling rose -slightly confused by the existing wiring.

Untitled

• cj47
• 14 Jul 2013
• 1

I seem to have (left to right)

1 Live to lamp
2 Live from circuit
3 Neutral from circuit
4 Live from circuit
5 Empty
6 Empty
7 Neutral from circuit
8 Neutral to lamp

On the basis of other wiring diagrams I've seen, I was expecting that 2 would be Neutral/black (perhaps with a red sleeve) and 3 would be live/red.

The light has worked fine since I moved in 15 years ago.

Am I OK to just copy the existing wiring into my new ceiling rose ?

Any help very gratefully received.
Chris[/img]

 

[Taylortwocities]

Some numpty has mixed up the switch wires

Turn the power off

Swop over the red and black wires at the left so you now have two reds in the middle and a black on the left (ie the live to the lamp).
Put a red sleeve over that black to show its a switched live.

PS You shouldn't see any bare copper into those terminals, and the earth conductors should have earth sleeving (green/Yellow)

 

[sparkwright]

It may be that the red and black coming out of the ceiling are the wrong way round.

No real reason why the switch live can't be red, and the permanent live can't be black (but sleeved red).

Best thing to do is to confirm which of the two CABLES emerging from the ceiling is the switch CABLE.

Then put the switch cable black in with the live pendant flex,
The remaining black (neutral) in with the neutral pendant flex,
Both reds together in the centre loop terminal,
The earths together in the earth terminal.

 

[riveralt]

Agree with what is said above.
When you follow those instructions your switch may turn the light off when it should turn on or vice versa.
So if the above is done make sure the red goes in the C at the switch and the black (with red sleeving) goes in the L1.

 

[sparkwright]

Agree with what is said above.
When you follow those instructions your switch may turn the light off when it should turn on or vice versa.
So if the above is done make sure the red goes in the C at the switch and the black (with red sleeving) goes in the L1.

I don't agree with that, unless the switch itself is interferred with, the switch will still work the same way up.

A 2 way switch can be wired to work upside down, a 1 way can't, unless physically turned upside down.

 

[Bluehair]

Some numpty has mixed up the switch wires

Which cable is the switch wire?

 

[EFLImpudence]

Which cable is the switch wire?

The one connected to the red of the light fitting.


Also, the cpc (earth) of the light fitting should be connected to the other cpcs.

Unless the two earth terminals in the rose are connected, which is unlikely.

 

[Bluehair]

Which cable is the switch wire?

The one connected to the red of the light fitting.

How do you know that?

 

[EFLImpudence]

How do you know that?

Well, if it isn't then the two reds together are neutrals and the blacks are all lives.

Nothing's impossible, I suppose.

 

[securespark]

Some numpty has mixed up the switch wires

Doesn't really matter, as long as the conductors are marked according to their use, ie the black with red tape or sleeve.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Some numpty has mixed up the switch wires

Doesn't really matter, as long as the conductors are marked according to their use, ie the black with red tape or sleeve.

Agree - but 'tis illogical.

I think permanent live should be red/brown if there is a choice.

 

[securespark]

Oh yeah, I agree. I consider myself logical in most areas of electrical installation and I would do it that way round too. In the same way that when wiring up light switches I would wire the nearest light in the room to the nearest switch on the plate when you enter the room and work away.

 

[Bluehair]

How do you know that?

Well, if it isn't then the two reds together are neutrals and the blacks are all lives.

Nothing's impossible, I suppose.

OK. So I cannot post here very often due to work, and Sunday is my catch up time for the forum (a pity as the forum looks good). Do you think that the OPs flex to the light has odd colours? And is it a 4 core flex? (I see a brown core cut short at the end of the flex).

It's a while since I saw flex with red and black cores. Pre 1960 at a guess.

 

[riveralt]

Do you think that the OPs flex to the light has odd colours? And is it a 4 core flex? (I see a brown core cut short at the end of the flex).

Its three core flex - that 'brown core' is just a cut in the sheath.

 

[cj47]

OP here.

Thanks very much to all for posting. In the end, I tried replicating the original wiring in the new ceiling rose. (So each wire kept its old position in the new rose, with new lamp brown replacing old lamp red in position 1, and new lamp blue replacing old lamp black in position

Seems to work perfectly. I'm thinking if it hasn't burned down our house in 15 years, it should be OK now. Or am I being complacent ?

Only difference is that the new rose/lamp has no earth wire, so I taped up the bare copper earth wire from the ceiling and left it unconnected.

Thanks
Chris