Central Heating questions: New build radiators

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Hi

I own a new build property (well 4yrs old), and moved in 2 years ago.

When I had the first boiler inspection, the chap mentioned that the systems in new builds were a bi 'different'.

The oddities (that I see it as) ready to be educated here!, are:
-The radiator in the upstairs hall way is connected to the downstairs thermostat and not the upstairs thermostat.
-The bedroom radiator does not have a TRV on it - so, it is 'always on'.

This isn't really creating a problem; in fact we seldom have the heating upstairs on in the past 2 years, but I am keen to understand what is going on here.

Also considering adding something like Hive, and thinking what the impact (if any) may be.

Thanks!
 
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The oddities (that I see it as) ready to be educated here!, are:
-The radiator in the upstairs hall way is connected to the downstairs thermostat and not the upstairs thermostat.
-The bedroom radiator does not have a TRV on it - so, it is 'always on'.
The changes for new-build heating were introduced to part L of the building regs in 2010.
The regs meant that new-builds over 150m2 should be split into two heating zones.
None of your heating idiosyncrasies, is directly related to those changes!

As @Stuckinarut suggests, the bedroom may be missing a TRV, if the room stat is based in there.

The upstairs rad may be on the downstairs zone because the space is open to downstairs, or it simply made the plumbing easier!

Is your boiler a combi, or do you have a separate water tank?
What your existing stats are, where you want to place the stats, whether you're going to decommission any existing wiring, where your wiring centre is, etc. may be factors that effect your choice of smart stat, when changing them.
 
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Is there a bypass installed in your system?

If not, then you'll have to leave one radiator always on as when the other TRV's turn off the water has to go somewhere.
Good thought, but not really the case with a modern two zone system - there would likely be an automatic bypass installed (if there weren't one already in the boiler), but also the upstairs zone could always be shut off at any time, leaving the bypass rad cut off as well.
 
We can all guess how plumbed, but we don't know, reading the county council sites, even the government does not seem to agree as to what is required to comply with Part L, we do it seems need to control rooms to some extent independently of each other, but it does not seem to specify how.

The modern gas boiler can modulate in order to gain the latent heat from the exhaust gases, in the main this means control needs to be analogue, with things turning slowly up or down, and on/off control is only implemented once the boiler is at it the lowest output.

But the problem is you can only fit what is made to fit your system, one can sing the praises of OpenTherm as much as you want, but if boiler not set up to work with OpenTherm, then you can't fit it.

I have lived in 6 homes with central heating, home 1 was hot air, and never went wrong, so never thought about it, home 2 fitted by me, around 1979 when no rules stopping me, a few tweaks in early years, but again it worked, so no ready thought about, my sister and daughter had some problems, but soon fixed, so forgot about it, my parents and this house caused problems, forget this house as oil fired, so parents house, central heating fitted under government grant, gas fired, and the list of errors seems rather large considering fitted by a firm doing nothing but fit central heating systems.

So the questions are very good, we can't assume it was fitted to British Standard, we are told a poorly fitted gas system can be only 70% efficient, and a well-fitted system can be 85% efficient, but as the user would you really know if 75% or 95% efficient? Unlikely as nothing to compare with.

So what we do know, is analogue is King, to work efficiently it needs analogue control, so if there are on/off controls it seems likely not really installed well.
 
Thanks everyone.

This is a combi-boiler.

I have asked this question elsewhere too, and it has been pointed out that the upstairs thermostat is in the main bedroom (an not the hallway) and it is possible that this thermostat controls the temperature of that room ONLY, and the downstairs thermostat actually controls EVERYTHING ELSE (including upstairs other rooms).
I will test this and report back.

In terms of a system like Hive - i think given our usage, it is probably unnecessary and so unlikely to persevere with that.

Thanks again
 
In an ideal world, and that does not in the main exist, we would expect to find a hub
1736091851440.png
something like the wiser one shown, which can connect to boiler's ebus
1736092084328.png
using the little white bit shown in the picture, using analogue connection (well really more like 256 steps, but near enough analogue) and the hub in turn connects to wall or radiator thermostats (TRV)
1736092319552.png
1736092495500.png
with the latter there is no real need for a wall thermostat as thermals in the room mean the TRV is normally ideally placed.

However, with careful adjustment of more simple system can work, the old method given in the text books was a wall thermostat placed in a ground floor room, as heat raises, with not alternative heating or cooling, so no outside doors or stoves etc, even windows likely to catch the sun, and kept cool so on warm days it will not be triggered, and no TRV in that room, but back in the real world, such a room rarely exists, so we look to near enough engineering, which often breaks the rules by having a TRV and wall thermostat in the same room, often the hall, to get around the fact when the outside door is opened it cools the room down, and the diagram given
1736093166936.png
of how the heat should move in the room, does not work, as there is a staircase in the room, so it will never circulate as shown.

So we select key rooms instead, which are the key rooms depends on your lifestyle as well as the house, but in a 4-bedroom house, if one bedroom has a linked TRV head, and the other three have the same schedule set, then the other 3 can have non linked TRV heads, as the one with the linked head will trigger the boiler to fire.

The important bit, is to have a hub, which can have items added to it, I made a mistake, I got Nest Gen 3 as it said it worked with Energenie TRV heads, they don't, so now have a wiser hub in parallel with the Nest heat link (hub) so at the moment 2 key rooms with wall thermostats, the hall and living room, intend to fit a Wiser TRV to wife's bedroom as well.

My boiler is rather simple, so I manually adjust the output temperature, start of winter and spring it is set low, and heart of Winter set higher, modern boilers have outdoor sensors which do this for you.

Again my old oil boiler simply turns on/off, so I always get a hysteresis, modern boilers with analogue control can avoid this. Temp_variation_on_off.jpgTemp_variation_OpenTherm.jpg As shown, again in theory no room can overheat, as the TRV will stop it, and the wall thermostat is there to stop the room being cold, but in real terms not that simple, in the summer I love a room at 17ºC, but in winter want 20ºC. I would only turn on the AC at 24ºC, but would not want 24ºC in the winter. The AC is easy, if I need it there is loads of sun, so the solar panels are making more power than they use, and even without the AC no real worry, we have too many power cuts to consider an electric powered central heating, the sun and batteries may keep the pumps and boiler running, but not enough to heat the house. So waiting for a year when no power cuts over 6 hours reported before considering heat pumps.
 

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