Change track rod and breaks before alignment?

[carmanmemoranda]

As others have said, those are pretty outrageous prices. If you really do have 5mm of movement at the wheel rim, then that's probably your tyre wear problem right there. Change the track rods and their ends, and then get the tracking done again. To be honest, I'm surprised that 5mm of movement at the rim wasn't an MOT fail? It's quite a lot. If your tracking was (say) 1mm out at the rim, you'd expect maybe some odd tyre wear, so if it's randomly flapping about 2.5mm each way, you're pretty much guaranteed odd tyre wear.

As others have said, the creaking is more likely to be a rubber bush than a joint. See if you can lie on the ground with a hand on each of the rubber joints in turn, while someone gets in and out of the car, and maybe you'll feel the creaky one (or hear it a bit closer)?

Don't forget, he's lubed the ball joints. !!

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

A little knowledge, can be a very dangerous thing!

 

[Avocet]

I guess silicone spray might not bee too bad to use on squeaky rubber bushes? Trouble is, if they're squeaking, there's probably something wrong with them anyway.

 

[carmanmemoranda]

I guess silicone spray might not bee too bad to use on squeaky rubber bushes? Trouble is, if they're squeaking, there's probably something wrong with them anyway.

Not going to make any difference to any play.

But the guy has been rumbled, not been back since Friday.

Hope his car didn't fall off the jack, or his brake discs .

 

[Smack123]

Ok, I'm pretty sure these guys were just trying to get an extra car in the garage.

I took the problem side wheel off and lubed all the rubber joints with rubber friendly silicon spray, then I rubbed some rubber friendly silicon grease over each for good measure. Unfortunately my can ran out of gas so I've yet to do the other side. The creaking is harder to notice while driving now but still there, awaiting on an order for some more spray and red rubber grease (apparently better than silicone) for the other side and hopefully get a silent drive again. Is there anything that would need lubing on the rear wheels?

I've put my hand over all the joints and bars pulling with fair force and recorded all movement. First the NS and OS wheels while attached have no visible play, they are equal, so I don't know why these guys said they weren't, the tyre rubber compresses a bit but the rim doesn't move at all. If I pull to the left or right and quickly push hard to the other side I can feel a tiny clunk or shift, but it is far too small a movement to see and is equal to both wheels, I don't know if that is normal or indicative of anything.

With the wheel off, I genuinely can't feel any movement on the track rod, I can't see any of the symptoms to require changing it, aside from the wheel being knocked out of alignment (which can happen after any pothole impact). The only movement I found was on the Dive shaft. I was able to push and pull it ~1mm. It rotates smoothly and makes no noises while manually moving.

Don't worry I cleaned up the grease afterwards.

I'll lube the other side once I get more product, and hopefully have a quiet drive to a different tyre garage for alignment.

Why are you changing them if there is no need?

It's just cheap and easy to do, it's above legal limits but in 10'000 miles when the pads need changing the discs will need doing aswell.

How did you lube the ball joints ?

Silicon Grease, changing to red rubber grease once it arrives.

What was the advisory for it ? Type it from your mot certificate.

Steering N/S track rod has slight play.
Steering N/S inner tie rod has play.

I've wrapped my bear hands around it and can feel nothing moving.

Track rod ends needs replacing if worn, or rubbers split allowing grease out (which would be an mot fail) no need if not.

 

[Avocet]

The driveshaft is supposed to move in and out a bit. It needs to do this because as the suspension moves up and down, it will have to be able to change length a little.

A lot of balljoints are spring-loaded, so unless you have the weight of the car resting on the wheels, you may not feel any play with just your hands. In addition, the car spends most of its time with the suspension around its mid-laden position, so that's where the wear will be worst. If you take the wheel off and let the suspension hang a full rebound you might not feel any play, because you've moved the worn surfaces out of contact with each other. Mottie has described how to check for ball joint and track rod end wear. Did you grab the inner tie-rod balljoint (through the rack gaiter) to feel for any play there?

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

This absolutely has to be a wind-up!

 

[Smack123]

Did you grab the inner tie-rod balljoint (through the rack gaiter) to feel for any play there?

Yes but I had the steering wheel turned while the car was in the air.

Unfortunately I don't have anyone to turn the wheel at the moment, with the car on the ground the tie rod end possibly has some play. It's not visible to the eye, but it feels like it rocks <0.1mm, though I'm really doubting whether I can feel anything at all. For the inner tie rod it's much the same pushing it forward and back via the end of the rack gaiter, I can't feel any movement grabbing the ball joint through the rack gaiter.

 

[Avocet]

Yes but I had the steering wheel turned while the car was in the air.

Unfortunately I don't have anyone to turn the wheel at the moment, with the car on the ground the tie rod end possibly has some play. It's not visible to the eye, but it feels like it rocks <0.1mm, though I'm really doubting whether I can feel anything at all. For the inner tie rod it's much the same pushing it forward and back via the end of the rack gaiter, I can't feel any movement grabbing the ball joint through the rack gaiter.

I appreciate the difficulties you're up against, as I've tried doing jobs one-handed before. There are, however, some that really just can't be done effectively. However, this seems strange. 5mm is really quite a lot of play, and whilst someone might argue that it was nearer 3 mm, I find it hard to believe that the argument is between "no" play and 5mm of play. For whatever reason, you have a tyre wearing unevenly, so it does look like there is something amiss somewhere.

If you still have some of your old MOT left to run, you're fine to drive the car and take it somewhere else (it doesn't have to be an MOT station) for a second opinion. If they can't feel any play either, you have the option to appeal to DVSA against the decision. The stakes are quite high if you do that for both you and the MOT station. A DVSA inspector will come and do a FULL MOT on your car. If it passes, DVSA have a variety of sanctions they can use against the test station. The risk for you, however, is that your vehicle could also fail on something the MOT station hadn't noticed!

 

[Mottie]

If you still have some of your old MOT left to run, you're fine to drive the car and take it somewhere else (it doesn't have to be an MOT station) for a second opinion. If they can't feel any play either, you have the option to appeal to DVSA against the decision.

It wasn’t a 'decision'. It was an advisory, you can’t appeal that.

 

[carmanmemoranda]

It wasn’t a 'decision'. It was an advisory, you can’t appeal that.

Actually you can. You can appeal for a car that passed that should have failed. This advisory could be a potential fail.

 

[carmanmemoranda]

This absolutely has to be a wind-up!

Yep

 

[Avocet]

It wasn’t a 'decision'. It was an advisory, you can’t appeal that.

D'oh! Sorry, yes you're right!